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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 562
Enthusiast


icon02 Dec 2018 16:41
I stand by my theory that May, Corbyn and Industrial figureheads are all colluding to ensure Brexit does not happen.

1. Mays proposal will not be passed.
2. May will resign/be kicked out as PM.
3. General Election will be called.
4. All parties will have in their manifesto that they will call a second referendum.
5. All parties have sown a web of deceit and lies to ensure enough people will now vote to remain in the EU.
6. The Tories will get back in, the 2nd referendum will come back as remain, we go back to the EU cap in hand.
7. There will be a few riots, its winter so not all nighters, a few 52" TV's will be stolen and a few inner city shops will be burnt. nothing much.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-464...

ps. I also believe Elvis lives and we never set foot on the moon :smirk:
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,304
Daytona T595


icon02 Dec 2018 17:22
I've been convinced for a long time that the end result of all this s!$% is that we do not leave - I just can't work out exactly how they are going to pull it off.
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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon03 Dec 2018 08:14
I see what you mean, and agree that not complying with the result of the referendum is bad for our democracy (if there were another vote, and remain won, would it go to best out of three).

But how do leavers feel that nobody, even the Brexit cheerleaders (Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davies, Farage etc) thinks that we'll be better off under Brexit, and to quote JRM, the promised Brexit dividend will take decades to arrive, if at all. Our own treasury predicts that best case scenario, our economy will be 4% smaller once the effects of Brexit are fully realised. I don't know how much that actually is, but I'm guessing it's tens of billions?

I know you all dismiss this stuff as project fear mark 2, but when your own side's Brexit cheerleaders have run off and hid, nobody's contradicting the numbers or claiming we'll be better off etc, is the desire to see the result of the original referendum followed through more important than the future prosperity, image, world standing and influence etc of our Country?
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Posts: 58,445
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon03 Dec 2018 09:29
Yes... because anythiing else isnt democracy and that way dictatorship lies... a few years of recession....? FFS we went through that before it's a stroll in the park... and it'll be worth it in the long run

Quote:
But how do leavers feel that nobody, even the Brexit cheerleaders (Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davies, Farage etc) thinks that we'll be better off under Brexit

I'm okay with the fact that those mentioned above do not believe that the deal that May has brokered is the right one.... hence the resignations... how do you not get that...???? they feel that she is a remainer and the deal that she has put together with the Brussels mandarins is a remain deal in everything except name....

Time to tell the EU its a no deal Brexit and just walk away... there are any number of scare stories in every paper and it's remainer sensationalism pure and simple... yes it'll be tough for a while but we've dealt with tough before
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon03 Dec 2018 10:13
Russ. I'm beginning to think you are correct. They all seem to be forgetting their job in carrying out the vote.

Strat:
I see what you mean, and agree that not complying with the result of the referendum is bad for our democracy (if there were another vote, and remain won, would it go to best out of three).

But how do leavers feel that nobody, even the Brexit cheerleaders (Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davies, Farage etc) thinks that we'll be better off under Brexit, and to quote JRM, the promised Brexit dividend will take decades to arrive, if at all. Our own treasury predicts that best case scenario, our economy will be 4% smaller once the effects of Brexit are fully realised. I don't know how much that actually is, but I'm guessing it's tens of billions?

I know you all dismiss this stuff as project fear mark 2, but when your own side's Brexit cheerleaders have run off and hid, nobody's contradicting the numbers or claiming we'll be better off etc, is the desire to see the result of the original referendum followed through more important than the future prosperity, image, world standing and influence etc of our Country?


Partly right too, but for the fact that the economy didn't collapse after Carney's last predictions post vote. He should stick to counting the pennies, or disappearing back to Canada, rather than being the voice of the doom mongers. The only one that's disappeared was Cameron. I don't see JRM or BJ going into hiding either. Plenty of other dissenters have openly left the cabinet in disgust too. That's not hiding. They appear to have principles too. Most are probably waiting to see how the vote falls after the vote in the Commons. As BL says, most leavers believed that it wouldn't be plain sailing, but that the end result by ten years would be that we'd be better off as a sovereign state rather than remaining in a failing federal Europe.
In Scotland we see empty ports where once fishing was the mainstay of the coast. We cannot at present either take what we want or fallow areas to ensure future stocks. With our fishing back we would have more viable work, investment in new boats, and extra food security. The SNP have their own agenda and understand their dream is just that without being propped up with subsidies from federal Europe.
In the present form we very limited to be able to trade outwith of the protectionist EU. Greece, Italy, and to a smaller part Spain are struggling with their economies. Do we really want to be responsible for continuing to bail them out along with our own debt repayments?
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,204
Enthusiast


icon03 Dec 2018 10:44
There seems to be a general feeling that the EU is failing and unless it becomes a superstate and a federalist country in its own right then it will gradually but surely crumble. And it may well end up not being a very nice outcome for most of the countries concerned. Now this is what we fought against in two world wars that cost the lives of millions of men women and children. Like it or not and even if it was 70 years ago for the last one, that is what happened.

Now you only have to look at the EU (despite what you are being told) that there is a small cabal that controls it. How any ties have you read that a certain two countries have demanded and got resolutions through the so called democratic process of the EU megalith? Does that not cause you to stop and think?

IMHO the ship is sinking and being of sound mind I think its better to abandon it now whilst its still afloat because that gives me more options than if I wait till its nearly sunk and my options are severely limited. Now you might say that the ship is unsinkable but they said tat about the Titanic and look where that got them. TBH I think the problem with the lifeboats are the same the longer we stay on the ship is valid as well.

It might be cold and uncomfortable in the water for a while but that is much better than being dead aboard a sunken ship.
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Posts: 58,445
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon03 Dec 2018 10:59
:thumbup:
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon03 Dec 2018 12:07
:thumbup:

Within 10 years it would be more than reasonable to expect trade deals to be operational without set tarriffs, VAT and the endless regulation expected by Europe. No wonder they are concerned we will have an unfair advantage.

STRAT
"......is the desire to see the result of the original referendum followed through more important than the future prosperity, image, world standing and influence etc of our Country?"

Trade should be more prosperous outwith of the EU as the protectionist blocks trading manner is detested by anyone outside of it's members influence.
Our image and world standing can only improve by stepping aside from the protectionist EU block. We would be seen as a much stronger and independent sovereign country.
The present influence of our country is negligible as we are one small part of just under 30 countries. The remaining block of 27 have to agree on most things before anything is done so at present we have f!$% all influence on anyone.

Carrying through on the vote is especially important. To not do so by utilising further European type neverendums until the politicians (and Europe) get what they want, rather than what the majority want, will erode our democratic beliefs. So yes, some pain and upset will be required but that is just tough.

Finally, apart from the remainer politicians, how many of the voting public who voted to leave do you see bleating about the situation? The majority of whingers appear to be remainers and not leavers.
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Katies Grandad
Snot on the Ouse,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,207
Speed Triple 1050


icon03 Dec 2018 14:24
What really pisses me off about this whole thing is the constant way that remainers consider anyone who voted leave to be stupid , uneducated, bigoted neanderthals. Project fear is based on the same assumptions.
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,365
Street Triple


icon03 Dec 2018 14:43
Katies Grandad:
What really pisses me off about this whole thing is the constant way that remainers consider anyone who voted leave to be stupid , uneducated, bigoted neanderthals. Project fear is based on the same assumptions.


:thumbup::thumbup:
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon03 Dec 2018 16:01
Or that 1.5 million have petitioned for a people’s vote when over 17 million have already stated they want out. :thumbdown:
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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon03 Dec 2018 16:27
I wonder what the average age of people on this site is, and as a group are we close to, or past, our age of prime economic activity? Therefore damage to the economy over the next ten years or so will effect us less as we've bought our houses, topped up our pensions etc. If we were 18, 25 or 30, would we feel the same?

I've just done a quick web search as to how much the 2008 financial crash and following recession cost our economy, and as ever the numbers vary, but £5 trillion seems to be a popular number, and even if that's wrong 5 times over, £1 trillion seems a lot to pay for French-made blue passports and not much else.

I'm stunned that Brexiteers have changed tack and are now saying a ten year recession is a price worth paying, and how quickly forgotten are the promises of sunlit uplands, Brexit dividends, cake and eat it etc etc.
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon03 Dec 2018 16:37
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-0...
Follow the link for the "leaked" document

Also.....FYI the press are also not reporting that the BRICS countries have already overtaken the G7 in terms of aggregate GDP ($44 trillion) and in purchasing power parity.
If this is true the G7 and EU are in big trouble, not least because Deutsche Bank has been caught again with its pants down. I'm waiting on G7 denials or the continued silence from the western press to determine the authenticity of this information.
Happy Christmas:smile:

As for Brexit...........Kabuki theatre and completely irrelevant to the world at large.
:pirate:
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Exup
Maesteg, South Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 425
Daytona 675


icon03 Dec 2018 16:53
There ya go Strat, what’s your take on that then?

Nice one Groucho.:thumbup:
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon03 Dec 2018 17:22
You're welcome Lyn:smirk:
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon03 Dec 2018 17:28
The BRICS big four countries are the ones with whom we should be making the biggest trading efforts without having to adhere to EU market regs. The Big Four are on the way up whereas Europe is in decline in comparison
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon03 Dec 2018 17:38
Well it seems the French have finally had enough of this horse s!$% and that mummies boy Macron. There haven't been as many fires in France since Hitler was on tour.............so much for his Paris climate accords:lol::lol:
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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 562
Enthusiast


icon03 Dec 2018 17:48
Strat:
I wonder what the average age of people on this site is, and as a group are we close to, or past, our age of prime economic activity? Therefore damage to the economy over the next ten years or so will effect us less as we've bought our houses, topped up our pensions etc. If we were 18, 25 or 30, would we feel the same?

I've just done a quick web search as to how much the 2008 financial crash and following recession cost our economy, and as ever the numbers vary, but £5 trillion seems to be a popular number, and even if that's wrong 5 times over, £1 trillion seems a lot to pay for French-made blue passports and not much else.

I'm stunned that Brexiteers have changed tack and are now saying a ten year recession is a price worth paying, and how quickly forgotten are the promises of sunlit uplands, Brexit dividends, cake and eat it etc etc.


Unlike a few on here Strat I actually agree with quite a few of the points that you make and believe that whatever way we go it will take a long time to heal divisions within the country regarding this.
Yes we appear to have been misinformed, by an awful lot of people on all sides, and yes it appears that coming out of the EU will cost us financially and yes I am late 50's, no mortgage, good job with a reasonable pension.
But you know what, David Cameron was daft enough to let this be decided in one single referendum and all political parties went along with it then we are stuck with it. End of, no second referendum.
And to top it all we are being treated harshly by the EU, they cannot see beyond their own interests that one of their biggest trading partners does not like the way that the EU is going, have they ever asked us "why".
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon03 Dec 2018 18:45
I'm finding this topic hilarious............
The EU, totally obstructing and disregarding the May governments proposals for a fair UK' exit.
May and the UK establishment totally disregarding the outcome of a democratic referendum to leave.
Politics is all about being firmly vague and unhelpfully informative whilst misappropriating huge wealth and influence for themselves in the process.

Does anyone still think there was a real choice in the first place:lol::lol::lol:
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Astronut
Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 371
Enthusiast


icon03 Dec 2018 21:12
Grouch:
Does anyone still think there was a real choice in the first place:lol::lol::lol:


Every brexiter ever. Anyone who thinks we'll be better off outside the EU might as well believe the earth is flat.

The choice is clear. Hard brexit - we'll be worse off for generations. Soft brexit - we'll be worse off for a couple of decades. Remain - no change. Why would you vote for being worse off?
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,304
Daytona T595


icon03 Dec 2018 21:29
I'm happy to take my chances. Not that I'm going to get the opportunity.
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon03 Dec 2018 22:29
Astronut:
Grouch:
Does anyone still think there was a real choice in the first place:lol::lol::lol:


Every brexiter ever. Anyone who thinks we'll be better off outside the EU might as well believe the earth is flat.

The choice is clear. Hard brexit - we'll be worse off for generations. Soft brexit - we'll be worse off for a couple of decades. Remain - no change. Why would you vote for being worse off?


:lol::lol::lol:

What a ridiculous statement.
Global trade is slowing, capital flow has stalled, economies are shrinking and people across the world are getting restless. The global economy is contracting, not because of brexit, but due to the reckless credit expansion and unpayable debt created since "the financial crisis". Nothing was fixed, insolvency was merely pushed forward to a later time. That time has arrived, and if you don't see that, you are focussing too hard on things which are of little consequence to the issues at hand, of which I suspect you are totally unprepared for.
Our membership of the EU will make no conceivable difference to the s!$% storm that's spinning up, we're all going to be in the same holed boat in or out of the EU for a long time. This brexit circus is a distraction, a stick with which cynical government will beat us when the consequences of their fiscal and economic improprieties finally come home to roost.
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,473
Bonneville (01-08)


icon04 Dec 2018 00:18
Astronut:


Every brexiter ever. Anyone who thinks we'll be better off outside the EU might as well believe the earth is flat.

Or every remainer ever. Who thinks we'll be better off staying in the EU might as well think the same .
It's not just financial reasons that people voted to leave for , there are other issues . You're obviously happy with a more federal Europe and you believe that losing our sovereignty is better ?Good for you :thumbup:
Astronut:


The choice is clear. Hard brexit - we'll be worse off for generations. Soft brexit - we'll be worse off for a couple of decades. Remain - no change. Why would you vote for being worse off?


Remain no change ?
Really 40 . I think you'll find there are going to be big changes in Europe in the next coming years and things are definitely not going to stay the same . If you think otherwise you might aswell believe the earth is flat 12
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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 562
Enthusiast


icon04 Dec 2018 09:21
Terry Christian

What an obnoxious Cnut he is, not because he is an ardent remainder just because he is an self centred mouthy w!$%er who won't let others have an opinion...

IMHOL

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/d...
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon04 Dec 2018 09:48
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2...
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onlineThat bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 351
Daytona 675 SE


icon04 Dec 2018 09:56
russ123rocket:
Terry Christian

What an obnoxious Cnut he is, not because he is an ardent remainder just because he is an self centred mouthy w!$%er who won't let others have an opinion...

IMHOL

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/d...



Nothing new there, he's always been as thick as mince and a weapons-grade throbber.
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon04 Dec 2018 10:11
russ123rocket:
Terry Christian

What an obnoxious Cnut he is, not because he is an ardent remainder just because he is an self centred mouthy w!$%er who won't let others have an opinion...

IMHOL

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/d...


:thumbup: Christ, another one. :speechless: How to impress and influence people. The only mouthy leavers I've seen so far is BJ and Farage. At least they provide some fundamentally worthwhile points to their argument.

As Grouch says, Brexit is small potatoes to what will happen shortly. The s!$%storm that occured in 2008 was seen by a few city people long before the event and well before Gordon Brown suggested he'd saved the world before handing over government to the tories with an empty coffer. The same friends that told me to cash in stocks and shares in 2007 are making the same noises now.
Compound the present levels of debt, with upcoming and unresolved monetary issues and it soon won't just be the French on the streets. Although we are struggling already I'm happy we drew the line and never agreed to join European monetary union.
I do understand why the government is so insistent on trying to fudge Brexit as there are so many variables to take into account. However the vote in 2016 did not include having to make any sort of deal with the EU. The vote was to remain within the EU block or to leave. It's a shame Article 50 wasn't lodged in 2016 without a deal. It would have saved the present f!$% up with both sides eager to get an agreement retrospectively, and without the Europeans now having such leverage. I believe we are better trying to leave in order not only to get back self governance, fishing and jurisdiction, but to avoid upcoming liabilities that are shortly to unfold within the block. You may well call it protectionism and pulling up the drawbridge, but charity really should start at home.
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,490
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon04 Dec 2018 12:29



Very informative, I've added the link to my 'reading list' and what's more it had lots of words I had to look up. I am going to start using contumacious in my emails when referring to all the awkward gits I come across at work :thumbup::lol:
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Exup
Maesteg, South Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 425
Daytona 675


icon04 Dec 2018 16:40
Just got this from a mate.

Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...

"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.

The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.

But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.

Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.

Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).

UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.

As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."

Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
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Exup
Maesteg, South Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 425
Daytona 675


icon04 Dec 2018 18:22
It looks ike TMs lie has bitten her in the arse after all the contempt of parliament stories in today’s news.
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Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon04 Dec 2018 18:24
Now that is a realistic summary:thumbup:

Mr. Shirtfront has gone up in my estimation:smirk:
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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon05 Dec 2018 06:58
Tony Abbott, PM of Australia for 2 years, wow! But when the 8 year ex- President of
the World's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner outside of the EU came down strongly against Brexit, members on this site said he was an interfering foreigner who should f!$% off and mind his own business.

So another example of Brexiteers selective hearing when it comes to this sort of thing.
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onlineThat bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 351
Daytona 675 SE


icon05 Dec 2018 07:51
Oh look!


A massive cock!25






/media/file/135382.aspx
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Posts: 58,445
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon05 Dec 2018 07:55
Don't feed the troll... Strat... if you are going to get confrontational your posts WILL be deleted
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Exup
Maesteg, South Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 425
Daytona 675


icon05 Dec 2018 08:12
Strat:
Tony Abbott, PM of Australia for 2 years, wow! But when the 8 year ex- President of
the World's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner outside of the EU came down strongly against Brexit, members on this site said he was an interfering foreigner who should f!$% off and mind his own business.

So another example of Brexiteers selective hearing when it comes to this sort of thing.


Strat, a lot has happened since then and surely he now sees that the country actually came together and voted to keep our sovereignty and maybe, just maybe he can also see how the poisonous, odious back stabbing, self serving manipulative w!$%ers in the EU are bending this to their own ends to punish those who dare take a stand!

Something you remainers just cannot understand as you’re too fecking blinkered.
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Posts: 58,445
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon05 Dec 2018 09:57
The ex Aussie prime minister has no axe to grind... says it as he sees it... the EU mandarins and Whitehall remainers have a vested interest in us staying... nuff said
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,473
Bonneville (01-08)


icon05 Dec 2018 11:19
~Bluelabel~:
Don't feed the troll... Strat... if you are going to get confrontational your posts WILL be deleted

Personally I've got no problem with Strat , it's his opinion and …...
Strat:
Tony Abbott, PM of Australia for 2 years, wow! But when the 8 year ex- President of
the World's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner outside of the EU came down strongly against Brexit, members on this site said he was an interfering foreigner who should f!$% off and mind his own business.

So another example of Brexiteers selective hearing when it comes to this sort of thing.


that's a valid point , in a debate people on opposite sides are always going to respect opinions which enforce their position , nothing wrong with that .
~Bluelabel~:
The ex Aussie prime minister has no axe to grind... says it as he sees it... the EU mandarins and Whitehall remainers have a vested interest in us staying... nuff said

And that's a valid point , you have to ask what are the vested interests of these people giving the opinions :thumbup:
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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon05 Dec 2018 11:37
~Bluelabel~:
Don't feed the troll... Strat... if you are going to get confrontational your posts WILL be deleted


Are you planning to delete those posts on another thread that called me a c!$%, or does censorship on this site only apply to people that disagree with the clique?
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onlineThat bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 351
Daytona 675 SE


icon05 Dec 2018 11:38
I have no problem with Strat having an opinion, but he needs to stop calling all pro-leave voters racists, liars and idiots etc.


The difference is Abbott is out of office, Obama was the incumbent President at the time Cameron prompted him to stick his oar in.


There are loads of vested interests, from EU funding of "Think Tanks", research grants and the like, to cushy jobs in within the EU's political structure (Don't forget that the Kinnock family; all failed politicians; have made millions out of the EU).
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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon05 Dec 2018 11:50
Exup:
Strat:
Tony Abbott, PM of Australia for 2 years, wow! But when the 8 year ex- President of
the World's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner outside of the EU came down strongly against Brexit, members on this site said he was an interfering foreigner who should f!$% off and mind his own business.

So another example of Brexiteers selective hearing when it comes to this sort of thing.


Strat, a lot has happened since then and surely he now sees that the country actually came together and voted to keep our sovereignty and maybe, just maybe he can also see how the poisonous, odious back stabbing, self serving manipulative w!$%ers in the EU are bending this to their own ends to punish those who dare take a stand!

Something you remainers just cannot understand as you’re too fecking blinkered.


Blinkered? I'm not the one that's knowingly supporting a policy that will make our country poorer, and IMO it's you Leavers who are too blinkered to accept you got it wrong and fell for the lies of UKIP and a few Tory elites.

But then I'd angry if I'd spent all that money building a stable fit for the golden unicorn I'd been promised, only to find that, at best, it's a knackered old donkey.

That bloke Nick:
I have no problem with Strat having an opinion, but he needs to stop calling all pro-leave voters racists, liars and idiots etc.


The difference is Abbott is out of office, Obama was the incumbent President at the time Cameron prompted him to stick his oar in.


There are loads of vested interests, from EU funding of "Think Tanks", research grants and the like, to cushy jobs in within the EU's political structure (Don't forget that the Kinnock family; all failed politicians; have made millions out of the EU).


Look, I've always agreed there's a lot not to like about the EU, but I don't see how squandering the hard-fought concessions we currently have (we already have, until we leave, pretty much the best deal of any of our comparable European allies) and starting from scratch on trade deals that nobody thinks will be as good as the ones we're already signed up to as a member of the EU, is anything other than a reckless and futile undertaking, and for what, what tangible benefit will we get out of it?
-
onlineThat bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 351
Daytona 675 SE


icon05 Dec 2018 12:08
I'm far from sure that there will be any tangible benefits in the short (or even medium) term.

Personally, I voted to leave for the following reasons:-

I am sure that the EU has a continuing and ongoing policy to morph from a free-trade area into a political entity with increased trappings of a nation state (i.e. The proposed European Army, the increasing primacy of the EU judicial system etc.).

The EU has to continually expand to survive, the only possible areas that it can do this is Moldova (which is an economic basket case) the poorer Balkan states that are not already members (they are, if anything, in a worse state than Moldova!) Ukraine (which would promote more or less open conflict with Russia) or Turkey, whose who social and political ethos is incompatible with the existing structure of the EU.

All of the possible accession states would be net recipients, placing a greater financial burden upon the riching, contributing states.

The fact that the unelected European Commission can actually initiate legislation. The Remain camp repeat the lie that the Commission is just like our UK Civil Service, this is untrue. The UK Civil Service merely enables, not initiates policy.

Lastly, given the way politics seem to be going in the rest of Europe, I strongly doubt that it has a long term future in it's current iteration.
-
Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 380
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon05 Dec 2018 12:27
As for the Kinnocks having their snouts in the trough, our mate Nigel has been an MEP since 1999, and consistently has one of the poorest attendance and voting records, so he is good value for his £78,500 per year salary and £43,000 per year allowance?

So ( as I think someone's already pointed out ) it just depends on where you're coming from on this?
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onlineThat bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 351
Daytona 675 SE


icon05 Dec 2018 12:32
That's just "Whataboutery".:thumbdown:

For the record, I think Farage is a narcissistic clown.

Why not address my criticisms of the EU?
-
Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon05 Dec 2018 14:01
That bloke Nick:
I'm far from sure that there will be any tangible benefits in the short (or even medium) term.

Personally, I voted to leave for the following reasons:-

I am sure that the EU has a continuing and ongoing policy to morph from a free-trade area into a political entity with increased trappings of a nation state (i.e. The proposed European Army, the increasing primacy of the EU judicial system etc.).

The EU has to continually expand to survive, the only possible areas that it can do this is Moldova (which is an economic basket case) the poorer Balkan states that are not already members (they are, if anything, in a worse state than Moldova!) Ukraine (which would promote more or less open conflict with Russia) or Turkey, whose who social and political ethos is incompatible with the existing structure of the EU.

All of the possible accession states would be net recipients, placing a greater financial burden upon the riching, contributing states.

The fact that the unelected European Commission can actually initiate legislation. The Remain camp repeat the lie that the Commission is just like our UK Civil Service, this is untrue. The UK Civil Service merely enables, not initiates policy.

Lastly, given the way politics seem to be going in the rest of Europe, I strongly doubt that it has a long term future in it's current iteration.


:thumbup:
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,365
Street Triple


icon05 Dec 2018 14:13
Nick - Why not address my criticisms of the EU?

He will not do that, the same way he has never given a response to me pointing out all the non EU suppliers to Airbus (he works for them) after he keeps bleating on that Airbus will be closing the plant down in Wales because we are no longer in the EU. But at the same time spending (probably) millions of dosh outside the EU.
-
Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon05 Dec 2018 14:34
A good point that needed mentioning again Irv:thumbup:
I however, won't be holding my breath, unlike the balloon inflating buffoon who won't stop blowing until the thing blows up in his face. A bit like the EU in that respect.
I'll get the popcorn:smirk:
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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 562
Enthusiast


icon05 Dec 2018 14:41
It seems to me to be a farce out of House of Cards;

Is may going to sacrifice herself to cause a General Election?

Are the MP's going to overthrow the elected government?

Are we going to have another referendum whre we can argue over the results?

Can I have a go at solving it with a big hammer?


FUBAR!
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon05 Dec 2018 15:08
Here's two pertinent matters to answer Strat


That Bloke Nick said:

"The difference is Abbott is out of office, Obama was the incumbent President at the time Cameron prompted him to stick his oar in."

Do you not remember Obama's faux pas of mistakenly using an English term rather than the norm for an American? Back of the queue and all that.

and again:

"The fact that the unelected European Commission can actually initiate legislation. The Remain camp repeat the lie that the Commission is just like our UK Civil Service, this is untrue. The UK Civil Service merely enables, not initiates policy."
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Ape Hanger Wanker
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Enthusiast


icon05 Dec 2018 15:15
I'm sat by a swimming pool in Mexico

FUEU
-
Grouch
Freedonia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,109
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon05 Dec 2018 15:24
How very globalist of you Paul:pirate:
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