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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 11:46
So now France and Germany are wanting their own army which will deplete NATO resources in both cash and manpower.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/11/2...

Spain is both encouraging Scottish independence by suggesting that Scotland should be able to rejoin the EU after Brexit, while not even letting the Catalonians have a referendum on their independence aspirations. It is also only now kicking off about Gibraltar, while a week ago suggesting that issues had been agreed.

And that twat of a woman appears to be using our UK waters as a bargaining chip to retain access to their customs union.

I would suggest we should be a great deal more concerned about Germany and France building their own armed forces than any issues over walking away from a supposed trade deal.
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595daytona
Birmingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,911
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 11:54
An EU army where policy and command decisions are shared with the Italians, Spanish and Greeks will be a f!$%ing joke.

The French army functions well on its own. They will not share their nuclear arsenal with anybody. They will not take orders off inexperienced German officers, and will resent the Germans having better ordnance and kit. They will not tolerate the Germans or any other EU member second guessing their activities in central and west Africa. They will not hand control of the Legion over to anybody. Period.

Spain can get c!$%ed. As a people we can do some serious damage to their valuable tourist industry by going elsewhere. Anywhere.

After all the talk about the EU being a partnership, mutual co-operation, etc, they sink back into petty nationalist issues and self-serving factions. That totally blows away the whole notion of the EU. Two faced bastards, all of them.
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 12:21
This new army proposal does seem to be a last ditch effort by twats Macron and Merkel before they exit the stage. One would think there's more important and pressing issues to be resolved before restructuring a defence force. As you say, with over 20 potential states having a say, its probably going to be a non starter as none will want to further dent their budgets while still contributing to NATO.

Trumps brash comments did make me smile too.:lol:

Europe will most certainly suffer over people not holidaying there if they continue to be seen as c!$%s, and insist on visas. The world is a bigger place than Europe.

The European Union won't exist in ten years time. Perhaps we should just ride it out and leave for free. Probably take the w!$%ers in charge that long to work out their preferred deal which won't involve leaving anyway. :thumbdown:
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,365
Street Triple


icon21 Nov 2018 17:23
....mmm let's see! There are two countries within the EU that I'm pretty sure will not want it's citizens becoming part of an EU military; Sweden & the Republic of Ireland, both being neutral. I wonder how that will go down....?
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That bloke Nick
Birley edge,
United Kingdom

Posts: 358
Daytona 675 SE


icon21 Nov 2018 17:27
The establishment of a European Army would be a significant step towards the EU gaining legitimacy as a State in it's own right.

That's the ultimate aim.
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 18:09
Krautophile:
....mmm let's see! There are two countries within the EU that I'm pretty sure will not want it's citizens becoming part of an EU military; Sweden & the Republic of Ireland, both being neutral. I wonder how that will go down....?


Don't forget Austria.

That bloke Nick:
The establishment of a European Army would be a significant step towards the EU gaining legitimacy as a State in it's own right.

That's the ultimate aim.


Should maybe remind Germany of the future peace and security clause:lol:


The Yalta Conference in February 1945 led to a further development of the terms of surrender, as it was agreed that administration of post-war Germany would be split into four occupation zones for Britain, France, the United States and the Soviet Union respectively.[5] In addition, but separately, it was agreed at Yalta that an additional clause 12a would be added to the July 1944 surrender text; that the Allied Representatives "will take such steps, including the complete disarmament, demilitarisation and dismemberment of Germany as they deem requisite for future peace and security." France, however, was not party to the Yalta agreement, which created a diplomatic problem as formal inclusion of the additional clause in the EAC text would inevitably create a French demand for equal representation in any dismemberment decisions. While this was unresolved, there were in effect two versions of the EAC text; with and without the "dismemberment clause".[6]
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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 574
Enthusiast


icon21 Nov 2018 18:19
Don't forget Austria. ????????

are they Neutral?
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595daytona
Birmingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,911
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 18:41
That bloke Nick:
The establishment of a European Army would be a significant step towards the EU gaining legitimacy as a State in it's own right.

That's the ultimate aim.


This is why the late Tony Benn was so opposed to the EU.
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Obeewan
Eastern Angles,
United Kingdom

Daytona Super III


icon21 Nov 2018 18:48
Quote:
Don't forget Austria. ????????

are they Neutral?


Hitler wasn't.:tongueout:
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon21 Nov 2018 19:05
russ123rocket:
Don't forget Austria. ????????

are they Neutral?


So I'm told http://countrystudies.us/austria/47.htm
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Dan The Man
An Englishman abroad,
Sweden

Posts: 3,586
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon21 Nov 2018 19:55
Krautophile:
....mmm let's see! There are two countries within the EU that I'm pretty sure will not want it's citizens becoming part of an EU military; Sweden & the Republic of Ireland, both being neutral. I wonder how that will go down....?


Irv, Swedens "neutrality" is increasingly questioned now. Some might even see it as a viable alternative to Nato :thumbdown:
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,365
Street Triple


icon21 Nov 2018 20:03
....mmm that's bad news!
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andy d
Yorkshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,283
Tiger Explorer XC


icon21 Nov 2018 20:47
The EU is also going to set up an EU spy academy run by the...................................Greeks. :lol:
It's not funny really.
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GDCobra
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,008
Thruxton (09->)


icon21 Nov 2018 21:40
andy d:
The EU is also going to set up an EU spy academy run by the...................................Greeks. :lol:
It's not funny really.


Just make sure the f!$%ers aren't bearing gifts.
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Hov
Sussex,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,534
Rocket III Classic (07-09)


icon22 Nov 2018 16:55
How can the EU be forming an Army? That nice Sir Nick Clegg said during the referendum campaign that the idea was a dangerous fantasy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTA2vXWk...
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon22 Nov 2018 17:08
Never did like Clegg. And now he's involved with Arsebook too:thumbdown:
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russ123rocket
Swinetown, Wiltshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 574
Enthusiast


icon22 Nov 2018 17:16
Neutral European countries: Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Ireland. Austria is bound to neutrality by the 1955 Austrian State Treaty and its constitution, which prohibits entry into military alliances and the establishment of foreign military bases on Austrian territory.
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595daytona
Birmingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,911
Daytona T595


icon22 Nov 2018 22:49
The Poles have a very good military. But they really, really don't like the idea of answering to the Germans. There might be some upsetting scenes.
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Nige
Tuesday so must be,
Belgium

Posts: 7,778
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon23 Nov 2018 15:27
If you believe Mr Tusk Poland could well be the next member of the EU that wants out of the club .......
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595daytona
Birmingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,911
Daytona T595


icon23 Nov 2018 16:29
Nige:
If you believe Mr Tusk Poland could well be the next member of the EU that wants out of the club .......


Doubt it. They are stuck with the choice of looking west or looking east again.
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Nige
Tuesday so must be,
Belgium

Posts: 7,778
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon23 Nov 2018 16:38
Looking more likely by the minute TBH ........
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joharper/20...
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Mustapha Dump
South East,
United Kingdom

Posts: 6,787
Enthusiast


icon23 Nov 2018 17:53
Nige:
If you believe Mr Tusk Poland could well be the next member of the EU that wants out of the club .......


My money's on Italy 23
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon23 Nov 2018 19:07
I COULD GO FOR THIS
Aussie (ex PM) Tony Abbott sums it up beautifully!-----
It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.
Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May cbefcause it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.
The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.
But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?
A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.
Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.
Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.
Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.
Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.
Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).
UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.
As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it.
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
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Riggsy
Maidenhead/Cov,
United Kingdom

Posts: 40,321
Street Triple R


icon23 Nov 2018 19:47
:thumbup:
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Obeewan
Eastern Angles,
United Kingdom

Daytona Super III


icon24 Nov 2018 00:56
Abbott nails it.:thumbup:

As for EU unity, you're having a f!$%ing laugh aren't you!!??? Our only true ally in Europe is Portugal, who we've never been at war with. The rest we have and are showing up how disingenuous they're truly are currently. Spain screaming over Gibraltar, France, Holland, Denmark, Belgium and Spain, again, screaming over fishing rights. Yup, one big happy f!$%ing family. c!$%s doesn't even cover it.:frown::thumbdown:
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Hov
Sussex,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,534
Rocket III Classic (07-09)


icon25 Nov 2018 14:05
First footage EU army on manoeuvres;

https://9gag.com/gag/apmvPzn
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,469
Daytona T595


icon26 Nov 2018 14:48
Bill:
Abbott nails it.:thumbup:

As for EU unity, you're having a f!$%ing laugh aren't you!!??? Our only true ally in Europe is Portugal, who we've never been at war with. The rest we have and are showing up how disingenuous they're truly are currently. Spain screaming over Gibraltar, France, Holland, Denmark, Belgium and Spain, again, screaming over fishing rights. Yup, one big happy f!$%ing family. c!$%s doesn't even cover it.:frown::thumbdown:


Precisely. Sooner we are away on WTO terms the better.
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