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NextRSSPreviousSocial Forums > The Hinckley Arms > Getting that last bubble of air out.
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon08 May 2018 12:25
I have bled brakes before, lots of times but why is it so difficult to get that last bubble or two out of Triumph brake callipers. :angry:

I used a syringe to put Dot whatever into the calliper carefully trying to angle the calliper so as to eliminate any bubbles but still the lever (front) needs 3/4's of a pull to bring the brake on.

Patience, I will get the bubble out.

As they say.

Rant over. :lol:
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 13:29
Power bleeder.:thumbup:

https://www.triumphtorque.com/media/albu...
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon08 May 2018 14:04
KK thank you for the heads up but it does not fit the front reservoir.
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 14:12
You can use it in reverse, force the fluid through from the bleed nipple instead. You would need someone with a syringe (or similar) to remove the excess fluid at the reservoir end. I've done it both ways.:smile:
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 14:42
simply tie back the lever overnight after pumping up
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 14:46
That wont remove air that's trapped in the U-tube between the calipers, nor air trapped in a caliper.....
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Tasha
Dundee,
United Kingdom

Posts: 298
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon08 May 2018 14:48
I had some some of those God awful Tokiko 6 pots once. I spent a month trying to get all te air out, a whole month. I ended up filling them with oil and building a wee pyre for them. I set them alight and bid them a safe journey to the after like. I have come to the conclusion some calipers just don't want to be used anymore :sad:
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 15:02
Take off the calipers and hold them above the m/c whilst bleeding. I always did the left hand one first to get rid of the majority of the air. Don't forget to put a piece of wood or something to hold back the pistons or it will get very messy very quickly
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon08 May 2018 19:19
Sir Alan of Ingol:
simply tie back the lever overnight after pumping up


Done that to ensure any pipe air was out.

----KK----:
That wont remove air that's trapped in the U-tube between the callipers, nor air trapped in a calliper.....


Down to about a 1/4, if that of lever travel before the pads grab the disc.
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~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 86,261
Tiger 800XC


icon08 May 2018 19:26
If it helps what I've done in past is pumped pistons out then pushed them all way back in and repeat

You can buy a speed bleeder kit of eBay
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon08 May 2018 19:47
~EARL~:
If it helps what I've done in past is pumped pistons out then pushed them all way back in and repeat

You can buy a speed bleeder kit of eBay


Pumped them almost out with a piece of blocking wood topped up via bleed nipple while holding calliper at an appropriate angle.
Used one of those bleeder kits which broke the second pump I made of it and yes I did make sure that air did not get in via the reservoir.
I will be patient.
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,290
Bonneville (01-08)


icon08 May 2018 19:59
Why are you bleeding the brakes , did you have a problem with them before you started ?
Also have you changed anything else , i.e. brake pads ?
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 20:15
I'm afraid Danny is now unable to answer as his post count is exactly 5,000 and he doesn't want to spoil it. :lol:
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,290
Bonneville (01-08)


icon08 May 2018 20:25
----KK----:
I'm afraid Danny is now unable to answer as his post count is exactly 5,000 and he doesn't want to spoil it. :lol:

he could private message :tongueout::lol:
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon08 May 2018 20:27
Everyone :thumbup::lol:
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon08 May 2018 22:57
Mach 1:
Why are you bleeding the brakes , did you have a problem with them before you started ?
Also have you changed anything else , i.e. brake pads ?


5001:lol::lol::lol: Completely stripped the callipers and every little bit of dirt out. Took an hour just to clean the seals recesses. So new seals, rubber boots for the sliders and pads. Replaced the pistons last time with SS ones, so just a brass wire brush for them this time.

Plus obviously new Dot 4 fluid.
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon08 May 2018 23:43
Place a piece of tube over the nipple and into a jar of fluid then open the bleed nipple and just using short sharp stabs on the lever it should get them out.
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,142
Daytona T595


icon09 May 2018 07:46
I tried vacuum bleeding, pumping fluid in backwards, everything! But the only thing I found to work was; with the brakes in normal operational condition, ie all tight but just working with a squidgy lever - I removed the lid from the master cylinder, (I use an early Daytona one with the metal reservoir just because I think it looks better), and I pump the lever as fast as I possibly can for about 10 seconds then leave to stand for a minute or so then pump again and stand for a minute...... After each set of rapid pumping I could see a flow of minute bubbles rising through the reservoir. I could feel the lever getting firmer each time. I continued until no more bubbles could be seen and the lever feels great and has remained that way. Don't know why it works but it does.
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,290
Bonneville (01-08)


icon09 May 2018 08:47
Danny:
Mach 1:
Why are you bleeding the brakes , did you have a problem with them before you started ?
Also have you changed anything else , i.e. brake pads ?


5001:lol::lol::lol: Completely stripped the callipers and every little bit of dirt out. Took an hour just to clean the seals recesses. So new seals, rubber boots for the sliders and pads. Replaced the pistons last time with SS ones, so just a brass wire brush for them this time.

Plus obviously new Dot 4 fluid.

Just asking to ascertain if you had decent pressure before you stripped the brakes down . As for pads , if they have been changed and there is a degree of wear on the discs then the lever will never feel good until the pads wear to match the undulations . If so I would suggest going out on the bike for half an hour and see if the lever improves.
Exuptoy:
Place a piece of tube over the nipple and into a jar of fluid then open the bleed nipple and just using short sharp stabs on the lever it should get them out.
Gladtobebackontwowheels:
I removed the lid from the master cylinder, and I pump the lever as fast as I possibly can for about 10 seconds then leave to stand for a minute or so then pump again and stand for a minute...... After each set of rapid pumping I could see a flow of minute bubbles rising through the reservoir. I could feel the lever getting firmer each time. I continued until no more bubbles could be seen and the lever feels great


Both above ways should work :thumbup:. I do something similar to GTBBOTW by just pulling the lever in then flicking your fingers off so the lever flicks back , the shock normally brings trapped air to the reservoir and you should see it . Obviously beware the fluid spurting all over with the reservoir lid .
Another thing I do is make sure there isn't any air trapped in the banjo bolt on the master cylinder , you can crack the bolt and bleed from there , putting a cloth below to catch the fluid.
The only other thing is that the Speed Triples did suffer from sticky pistons and that caused excessive lever travel as the seals didn't let the pistons move properly and they returned too far , that shouldn't be a problem if they have just been rebuilt and pistons are nice and free.
Dunno if that is any help ?
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon09 May 2018 12:41
Brakes were fine before.:sad: :lol:
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GDCobra
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,877
Thruxton (09->)


icon09 May 2018 13:37
Excessive lever travel may not be caused by air, it could be due to piston travel to close the pads onto the disk. Wedge or clamp the pads/pistons so they can't move, if lever is still spongy you have air in the system, if solid then you don't.

Tying back the lever will not help bleed brakes in fact it will guarantee no air can get out. What it can do is hold the pistons out and give the seals time to relax so that when the lever is released the pistons stay out so much less lost motion. Did you put any lube on the seals when you re assembled?
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon09 May 2018 13:45
Yes I put a very fine film of fluid on the seal before re-assembly.
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,290
Bonneville (01-08)


icon09 May 2018 20:28
You did put the pads back exactly the same as they came out didn't you ?
GDCobra is right lock the pistons somehow and if lever still has excessive travel there is still air in the system , or you've damaged seals in master cylinder
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GDCobra
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,877
Thruxton (09->)


icon09 May 2018 21:46
Danny:
Yes I put a very fine film of fluid on the seal before re-assembly.


I always use rubber grease on mine.
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon09 May 2018 22:13
Gladtobebackontwowheels:
I tried vacuum bleeding, pumping fluid in backwards, everything! But the only thing I found to work was; with the brakes in normal operational condition, ie all tight but just working with a squidgy lever - I removed the lid from the master cylinder, (I use an early Daytona one with the metal reservoir just because I think it looks better), and I pump the lever as fast as I possibly can for about 10 seconds then leave to stand for a minute or so then pump again and stand for a minute...... After each set of rapid pumping I could see a flow of minute bubbles rising through the reservoir. I could feel the lever getting firmer each time. I continued until no more bubbles could be seen and the lever feels great and has remained that way. Don't know why it works but it does.


I did a little suzuki by the "dry blead method" , new master cyl , new hose and new caliper , the blead nipple was NEVER opened

I filled the sys and then slowly pulled and release the lever a good few times and tied it back , an hour later I returned and repeated with the lever , only a few mm in and out and watched the bubbles appear , then tied it , back , on the 3rd attempt , again with lots of bubbles , I pumped up a lever and tied back , each successive attempt at this gave a harder lever
pumped and tied back left over night and had a 75/% brake , repeated bubbles and pumped and tied back , next day a 100% lever

not going to help you , as you have different pipework , but retry the trick with very small lever movement , very slowly , a bubble may just appear


another thing I have found is that more and more the douty seals/washers seem to be better than basic washers , I buy them from T parker and use them all the time , even if a new hose or cyl is supplied with new copper washers

good or bad dunno , but all the bikes made in china use them as std ,


but there again I know s!$%e all , apart from owning a t595 that I made s/steel hoses up for and fitted sucsessfully
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon09 May 2018 22:57
Might try for bubbles on the master cylinder tomorrow as well as the rear brake which is the one that I usually have the trouble with not the front as this time.
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon09 May 2018 23:04
try douty washers for what they cost , and its only about 10-20mm and very slowly and look for bubbles
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John Nelson
Coventry,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,209
Speedmaster


icon09 May 2018 23:34
<PedantMode>
That would be "Dowty washers" Alan.
</PedantMode>
Also called Bonded seals, used in aircraft hydraulics, reliable and reusable. :thumbup:
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon09 May 2018 23:40
probably , and as you say reliable and reusable, available online or tom parker
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~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 86,261
Tiger 800XC


icon10 May 2018 09:36
You do realise sir Alan that t595s came with stainless hoses as standard lol :tongueout:
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon10 May 2018 10:07
yes and I used a lsl (?) kit to fit higher bars and the hoses were not long enough

but whats it matter , more time guessing the reason for changing hoses and the spelling of Dowty , than assistance by many

sigh

good luck eradicating your bubble Danny
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon10 May 2018 11:04
For goodness sake just unbolt the calipers stick a bit of wood between the pistons and raise them above the m/c. Its usually a air bubble in the crossover pipe and its a bugger to shift.
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~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 86,261
Tiger 800XC


icon10 May 2018 11:04
Because devil is in the details
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon10 May 2018 11:20
....and because the assembled throng on here are crotchety, curmudgeonly, grumpy old bastards who are perfect in all that they do.:lol:
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 14,088
Enthusiast


icon10 May 2018 11:26
:lol::lol::lol:

I heard at least 3 had bikes they rode as well
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon10 May 2018 11:28
...and I have 2 of those.:lol:
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon10 May 2018 11:29
Of course some of us would ride if they could.....:sad:
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon10 May 2018 11:39
Ah, ok. Point taken.
-
~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 86,261
Tiger 800XC


icon10 May 2018 11:45
I ride mine at the weekend and off to Germany in 3 weeks
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon10 May 2018 20:14
All air out, well I hope so as brakes seem to work fine. The problematic front brake came good in the end. The rear brake which is usually the hardest to bleed (low down reservoir) took 10-15mins with the wife pushes the foot lever.

Bike fully serviced, s!$% forgot to change the fork oil, well it has been in there 10 years so another month or so will not make a difference. :lol:
Everything cleaned and polished to boot. Ride out on Saturday.:thumbup:
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon10 May 2018 20:42
It's raining Saturday.84












04 03
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon10 May 2018 21:05
Nice one Danny
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Danny
SE Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5,162
America (02->)


icon10 May 2018 21:21
----KK----:
It's raining Saturday.84












04 03


Not where I am in Wales until late afternoon early evening. :thumbup:

Exuptoy:
Nice one Danny


Thank you. Very pleased with it.
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DavyS
Edinburgh,
United Kingdom

Posts: 73
Daytona 955i (02)


icon11 Jul 2018 18:54
X-Man:
For goodness sake just unbolt the calipers stick a bit of wood between the pistons and raise them above the m/c. Its usually a air bubble in the crossover pipe and its a bugger to shift.


Gonna try that tomorrow, i've given up for the day.:frown:
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DavyS
Edinburgh,
United Kingdom

Posts: 73
Daytona 955i (02)


icon15 Jul 2018 22:08
DavyS:
X-Man:
For goodness sake just unbolt the calipers stick a bit of wood between the pistons and raise them above the m/c. Its usually a air bubble in the crossover pipe and its a bugger to shift.


Gonna try that tomorrow, i've given up for the day.:frown:


X-Man saves the day again. Best brake I've had on any of my Tonas. Thanks.:thumbup:
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon16 Jul 2018 08:13
:thumbup:
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon16 Jul 2018 16:10
DavyS you have a text message and a pm
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