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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 14:41
WTF is going on ? Just read a vague blurb with no facts ....

Damn auto correct , RIP Alfie!
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Fretmeister
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 63,727
Tiger Explorer


icon29 Apr 2018 15:57
Who?
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595daytona
Birmingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,645
Daytona T595


icon29 Apr 2018 16:00
'Vague blurbs' would be a good term to describe the lives of the slack-jawed cretins who have been standing outside the hospital verbally abusing and threatening to kill medical staff going in and out of work.

Gotta love the christians, be they fundamentally ill ones or cafflickers.
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 17:23
Fretmeister:
Who?


An infant that your medical genuises could not cure and let starve to death ....that’s all the article had to offer :blush:
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 3,030
Daytona T595


icon29 Apr 2018 17:29
A very balanced view then obviously. None of us know enough facts to make a judgement about this very sad case.

Not that it's our place to anyway.
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Fretmeister
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 63,727
Tiger Explorer


icon29 Apr 2018 17:49
Oh, still none the wiser.
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 41,380
Enthusiast


icon29 Apr 2018 18:00
Do they have a news service in Portsmouth? Does Google not even bother to reach there?


j p:

An infant that your medical genuises could not cure and let starve to death ....that’s all the article had to offer :blush:
Maybe you might like to check out the facts?
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 18:51
----KK----:
Do they have a news service in Portsmouth? Does Google not even bother to reach there?


j p:

An infant that your medical genuises could not cure and let starve to death ....that’s all the article had to offer :blush:
Maybe you might like to check out the facts?



Here is a fact ..let the government decide what’s best for you and you will not get what’s best for you !!!!
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,113
Bonneville (01-08)


icon29 Apr 2018 18:54
----KK----:
Do they have a news service in Portsmouth? Does Google not even bother to reach there?


j p:

An infant that your medical genuises could not cure and let starve to death ....that’s all the article had to offer :blush:


Maybe you might like to check out the facts?


I think so too :thumbup:

Allegedly he had a degenerative medical condition which notably affects the brain and there was nothing that could have been done , that fact has been agreed upon by other specialists outside of the UK btw.
595daytona:
'Vague blurbs' would be a good term to describe the lives of the slack-jawed cretins who have been standing outside the hospital verbally abusing and threatening to kill medical staff going in and out of work.

Gotta love the christians, be they fundamentally ill ones or cafflickers.


Absolutely disgrace , these people should be ashamed of themselves .In the end the police had to be called in to protect staff .
The social media driven mob should give themselves a big pat on the back for a job well done :speechless::speechless:
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 41,380
Enthusiast


icon29 Apr 2018 18:59
JP, read the facts about this case. It wasn't the 'government' deciding what's best for you. The kid had a degenerative brain condition.
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 19:34
----KK----:
JP, read the facts about this case. It wasn't the 'government' deciding what's best for you. The kid had a degenerative brain condition.


Yes ...but they would not allow him to go to Italy ... it’s beside the point if it would have done him any good or not ..It’s the parents right to choose what treatment path to follow ..not the UK health care systems!
You do know that Drs have been known to be wrong.......
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Henpecked
Gtr Manchester,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 1,579
Sprint ST (05->)


icon29 Apr 2018 19:54
j p:
----KK----:
JP, read the facts about this case. It wasn't the 'government' deciding what's best for you. The kid had a degenerative brain condition.


Yes ...but they would not allow him to go to Italy ... it’s beside the point if it would have done him any good or not ..It’s the parents right to choose what treatment path to follow ..not the UK health care systems!
You do know that Drs have been known to be wrong.......


JP in UK law Doctors have an obligation to put the interests of the patient first, in this case the infant. In the opinion of the medical professionals the trip anywhere would have been detrimental to their patient and caused additional pain and suffering to the child.

The parents understandably wanted to explore every possibility and as a result were loathe to accept the opinion of the medical teams. As pointed out previously even the Italians were only really offering palliative care and there was no long term future for Alfie.

The morons outside the hospital managed to portray all the worst of Britain's mob mentality. Ill informed only interested in their own opinion and while professing to have the interest of Alfie at heart apparently felt it was OK to ignore the needs and concerns of every other patient.

To misquote Star Trek the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few.

RIP Alfie but I do hope that when all settles down the facebook mob take a good look at their actions and vow never to repeat them.
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Premier Member
Posts: 57,944
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon29 Apr 2018 20:02
Lets ask a question.... if Alfie Evans was an American with no health insurance.. would life support have been continued in a "free" hospital.... ?

With a degenerative brain condition and no hope of recovery the future would have been as bleak for the little lad over the pond as it was over here... it would probably have been no different in Italy...

Bear in mind that his free care was being taken up from someone with a possible hope of recovery.... a terrible choice for someone and sad for the family, but its the terrible algebra of necessity...
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Grumpy
dunstable,
United Kingdom

Posts: 110
Daytona T595


icon29 Apr 2018 20:09
But why not the fcuk try ? If going to Italy didn't do any good at least it was tried now the poor sodding parents will never know
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Premier Member
Posts: 57,944
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon29 Apr 2018 20:38
So where does it end if Italy came to the same conclusion.....? What country next...? Do you keep going round every country on the planet with the same inevitable outcome... and to my mind it was better to let the poor lad slip away with some dignity than be the foil in a social media s!$%storm
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russ999rocket
Swine Town,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 2,581
Tiger Explorer


icon29 Apr 2018 21:02
BBC
One of the dilemmas Alfie's case raised is whether doctors are the right people to determine if withdrawing life-support treatment is in "the best interests" of a terminally ill child.

One of the key arguments presented by his parents was that they should decide what is best for their son.

It was the same case made by the parents of Charlie Gard, the 11-month-old baby who died last year following a similar battle over his treatment.

The law in the UK falls somewhere in-between. The 1989 Children's Act makes it clear that where a child is at risk of harm the state can and should intervene.

This means that the rights of parents are not absolute and the state has been emboldened to challenge the view of parents where they believe a child's best interests are not being served.

If a public body disagrees with the parents' choices, they must go to court in order to override this parental responsibility
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 41,380
Enthusiast


icon29 Apr 2018 21:03
Should we listen to criticism from someone where they take care of their children like this? 30 25 03

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a8...
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 21:06
~Bluelabel~:
So where does it end if Italy came to the same conclusion.....? What country next...? Do you keep going round every country on the planet with the same inevitable outcome... and to my mind it was better to let the poor lad slip away with some dignity than be the foil in a social media s!$%storm



But the so called experts said he could not live with out the machines ...it took 7 days for the poor little guy to pass...maybe the same experts were wrong with their diagnoses.....

The real question is about who makes the decision on what treatment he receives . The Drs or the family .....
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Fretmeister
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 63,727
Tiger Explorer


icon29 Apr 2018 21:10
----KK----:
Do they have a news service in Portsmouth? Does Google not even bother to reach there?


j p:

An infant that your medical genuises could not cure and let starve to death ....that’s all the article had to offer :blush:
Maybe you might like to check out the facts?


No idea, I don't live in Portsmouth.
However I have seen no news for a couple of weeks and take little interest either.

Seems it was a child that had no hope of surviving from what I understand now.
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Premier Member
Posts: 57,944
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon29 Apr 2018 21:17
j p:
~Bluelabel~:
So where does it end if Italy came to the same conclusion.....? What country next...? Do you keep going round every country on the planet with the same inevitable outcome... and to my mind it was better to let the poor lad slip away with some dignity than be the foil in a social media s!$%storm



But the so called experts said he could not live with out the machines ...it took 7 days for the poor little guy to pass...maybe the same experts were wrong with their diagnoses.....

The real question is about who makes the decision on what treatment he receives . The Drs or the family .....


You haven't answered my question as to whether he would have been allowed further care in America... would the family have been able to afford the treatment with no health insurance...
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon29 Apr 2018 22:14
If they do not have health ins or the means to pay for care ..most likey children’s hospital or Dana farber or some charitable institution would have cared for the child free of charge !
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Henpecked
Gtr Manchester,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 1,579
Sprint ST (05->)


icon29 Apr 2018 22:53
j p:



But the so called experts said he could not live with out the machines ...it took 7 days for the poor little guy to pass.


JP Doesn't that confirm they were right?..

If you had seen the coverage in the press over here, which was initially in favour of the family but subsequently reported the threats against staff and the apparently attempted disruption of day to day service to others with equally deserving children you may have a different opinion while still mourning the death of a child as do we all.
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,113
Bonneville (01-08)


icon29 Apr 2018 22:59
j p:
~Bluelabel~:
So where does it end if Italy came to the same conclusion.....? What country next...? Do you keep going round every country on the planet with the same inevitable outcome... and to my mind it was better to let the poor lad slip away with some dignity than be the foil in a social media s!$%storm



But the so called experts said he could not live with out the machines ...it took 7 days for the poor little guy to pass...maybe the same experts were wrong with their diagnoses.....

The real question is about who makes the decision on what treatment he receives . The Drs or the family .....


With all due respect jp I think you are jumping to the wrong conclusions here . For one thing there was no decision to be made on treatment as there was none . The only issue was palliative care or life support and if it should continue . Bearing in mind that the child had been in hospital for around a year and you have to realise that the specialist doctors would have discussed Alfie's condition on numerous occasions and looked at every avenue before coming to the conclusion they did . This decision is not taken lightly at all and it has been before a court and the judge agreed with the NHS. And it's not about money tbh . I think you will find there are hundreds , if not thousands of children who have been in hospital for over a year and you will find there are children who have died in similar ways as Alfie , but there hasn't been the media circus around their passing .
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Speed Triple T309


icon30 Apr 2018 09:00
----KK----:
Should we listen to criticism from someone where they take care of their children like this? 30 25 03

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a8...


WTF!30 - exactly KK, the moron needs shooting for risking his kids like that. What a complete f!$%ing idiot.:thumbdown::thumbdown:
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 15,280
Daytona 675


icon30 Apr 2018 09:13
Not the same I know, but when my MIL passed in January she had gone from being in rude health to taking a turn for the worse overnight for her not to wake again.

We were told that the machines would be removed as she had no hope of waking as determined by all the tests they had carried out. I argued that turning them off at 12AM once all the family had arrived or 12PM the following day should make no difference and she should be given the extra day to try and fight it even though it was not my call. However they switched off the ventilator against our wishes and within 30 mins she had passed.

Clearly the medical profession DO know what they are dealing with as they do this every day. Our own choices are based on OUR need to try and will things to happen and that comes from love not knowledge.

RIP Alfie.
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Nick
Birley Edge,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 20,633
TT600 (00-01)


icon30 Apr 2018 10:46
I'm just amazed that such a large crowd of scummy Scousers managed to avoid killing people.
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Riggsy
Maidenhead/Cov,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 40,257
Street Triple R


icon06 May 2018 18:48
j p:

But the so called experts said he could not live with out the machines ...it took 7 days for the poor little guy to pass...maybe the same experts were wrong with their diagnoses.....


The "so called experts" actually said he could last between minutes & days. But, there would only be one horrible outcome.
I know there was a massive public outcry when he didn't pass immediately, but in reality, this was not un-expected.

His Quality of life once the disease took hold deteriorated daily, and was ever going to change.

s!$%ty situation for all sides, and in these s!$%ty situations, we sometimes need the legal system to make the final decision.

The decision was right, with the available medical tech of today, but it may not always be right.
Although painful for all concerned, we do occasionally need the law to be tested in this way.

RIP Alfie6262
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