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Strat
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 320
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon07 Mar 2018 12:35
So, I know I have a differing view from many on here, but I have a question and I'm genuinely interested to know what people think.

Bearing in mind T May's speech where she pretty much admitted we as a nation would be poorer post-Brexit, the stuttering 'progress' of the negotiations, the Brexit Secretary's aspirational assurances that post-Brexit the UK won't descend into a Mad Max style dystopian nightmare, the Irish hard border conundrum', our economy having gone from top to bottom of the G7 and performing worse than the EU as a whole, collapse of the £, sterling the worst performing currency in the world last year save for a few African countries, inflation at 3% and a potential trade war with the USA where Trump is clearly following a domestic agenda and any deal with America would be solely on their terms, I could go on, but in my view there's so much stacking up against Brexit, with very few tangible benefits (but believe it or not, I am a reluctant remainer, open to changing my mind when someone finally gives me some tangible, measurable benefits of leaving).

Even the die-hard Brexiteers (Farage, Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davis etc) have stopped spouting the "it'll be great" line and seem to be adopting a "Brexit is about compromise and accepting we won't get everything we want" approach, but didn't they tell us we "could have our cake and eat it"?

So my question, is the view of the 'average' Brexiteer that despite all the "cake and eat it" "they need us more than we need them" rhetoric, our nation will be poorer after Brexit, with reduced opportunities for future generations and our world standing and influence diminished, we knew this when voting, we accept it, but it's still a price worth paying for leaving the EU?

Or is it all hogwash, and after some short term disruption, in 10 years time we'll be stronger and better off out?

And if you do think we'll be better off, why?
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Speed4Boy
North Yorkshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 303
Speed Four


icon07 Mar 2018 13:02
From what I know and hear, I would still vote out. The attitude from the EU, especially Barnier has been disgraceful. I also don't want to be part of a US of E.
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Rob NMTB
Redditch,
United Kingdom

Posts: 54,526
Speed Triple 1050


icon07 Mar 2018 13:20
I would still vote out, but I'm sick to death of the propaganda and downright lies spewing from both sides of the argument.

So much so, that mention Brexit and I switch off, and will do until we have some hard facts to go on.
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jaguartvr
Englefield Green,
United Kingdom

Posts: 4,641
Enthusiast


icon07 Mar 2018 13:27
Worth taking a bit of a hit now.
Will be well worth it in the end to take back control of our own country.

Appoint Boris as PM and take on Farage as Brexit minister in charge of negotiations.
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GDCobra
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,877
Thruxton (09->)


icon07 Mar 2018 13:44
What a shame they weren't so forthcoming with information before the referendum.
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Scott
Portsmouth,
United Kingdom

Posts: 6,001
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon07 Mar 2018 15:34
Rob NMTB:
I switch off, and will do until we have some hard facts to go on.


Sorry but this is politics, there will never be any hard facts. when it comes to politicians (from any party) figures and meanings will be massaged to suit the parties particular preference. You could give the exact same info and figures to each party on a single simple thing and the "result" and how they "interperate" said information will be polar opposites of each other. One will swear black is white the other will swear white is black and the 3rd will tell you that it is in fact gold or blue, its what suits their agenda

I hold politicians and the weatherman with the same contempt. Don't belive s!$% they say till I physically see it happen with my own eyes.

Personally the eu has brought some good things, it has brought some bad things, what I don't like is having a self appointed "government" that we have no choice in its electing, has no recourse from anyone, can't be voted out by anyone and replaced. It decides what it believes is best for everyone, how much money it wants and wants to pay itself. Believes that ALL things in EVERY country is and will be the same. Each country in the eu is diverse, have completely different cultures and beliefs, they are completely different from one another, what is good for one is not always good for the other but with the eu that does not fit.
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon07 Mar 2018 16:21
The EU has infected the UK like Japanese Knotweed and the only way to get rid of knotweed is to dig it all out
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,175
Enthusiast


icon07 Mar 2018 16:25
Lets see what the Italians get up to now they look like having a eurosceptic party and an anti euro party running the country. And the apperant fact that Germany looks like having to pick up a third of the black hole us leaving will create.

Of course the EU are playing hardball and coming out with all this rubbish (and people believe what a politician tells them.....) because they know without our money the brown stuff is going to hit the rotating object rather sharply (actually if you look at the budget proposals of the EU its already happening) and tears will be shed.

Yes of course there will be negatives to leaving the s!$%hole that will shortly become the superstate that, to all intents and purposes already exists, of Europe. Who think they can take on the might of the USA and Russia and win. I see that one of the most eurocentric MEPs' has already come out and said Germany must get out of the Euro smartish......

Mainly though, nobody really knows how it is going to pan out till after it has IYSWIM . It is always worth remembering the old saying; How do you know when a politician is lying? They are talking.
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon07 Mar 2018 16:32
And now the Bogwog wants to deliberately f!$% up British people's holidays to teach them a lesson :lol:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ry...
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,213
Street Triple


icon07 Mar 2018 17:25
Let him! He's a twat of the highest order.

He'd stick a knife in his own belly if he thought he would get free publicity. :lol::lol:
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,214
Daytona T595


icon07 Mar 2018 17:27
:lol:

Obviously concerned that it's going to severely impact on his crap airline


One has to wonder what all these Eurocrats are going to do with themselves as their federal republic of Europe crumbles. With us out it might encourage others to follow, so of course they are going to make it as difficult as possible to discourage dissenters.

Bet Greece wished it had never gone there:tongueout:
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Krautophile
Hunts & Crawley,
United Kingdom

Posts: 57,213
Street Triple


icon07 Mar 2018 17:32
The big question really should "will the EU actually try and roll back their stupid spending"

I can tell you now. Germany will not step up to the plate and cough up much more money. They already dig the deepest into their pockets. There will have to be some massive changes once the UK no longer pumps billions into their budget. That is one of the reasons Barnier is a bastard. Another is he is a Gaulist and you know how that f!$%-wit respected the UK and all it done for him?
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,214
Daytona T595


icon07 Mar 2018 17:36
The way these Euro pricks have been behaving is beginning to show their true colours and why we should never have been so heavily involved with the f!$%ers
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Mach 1
Durham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,288
Bonneville (01-08)


icon07 Mar 2018 17:43
I pretty much agree with the views above :thumbup: , and as a reluctant Brexiteer I would probably vote to leave again if there was a second referendum.
In some ways the whole divorce talks have shown how arrogant and undemocratic the EU is , and as has been said , Barnier's attitude is nothing short of disgraceful . I personally don't want a deeper integration of a state with leaders like that .
The simple truth , that even you Strat know , is that the EU don't want to give the UK a favourable divorce becuase it would probably open the floodgates for other EU members to follow suit and that is last thing they are going to let happen . And that in any way you look at it says you are holding a country to ransom , it couldn't be more undemocratic if it tried . Seriously dangerous agendas imo
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,141
Daytona T595


icon07 Mar 2018 17:45
Nice n Fat:
And now the Bogwog wants to deliberately f!$% up British people's holidays to teach them a lesson :lol:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ry...


Great, let the c!$% go bust!

I really don't care how bad it gets Strat, and I still don't think it will be THAT bad, I want out. I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant f!$%wits postulating and pouting. My big issue is that May and her cronies need to grow a spine and start making some demands instead of simply reacting to their bile and spite. If we decide to play hard ball they would be at least as f!$%ed up as we would, but also poorer by many billions of pounds to boot. Just wait until France, Italy, Spain et al go to their people and ask them to make up the difference!
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon07 Mar 2018 17:45
Pay only what we have already agreed to in the budget then it's hasta la vista baby /media/file/78249.aspx
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Baldbloke
Moray,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,214
Daytona T595


icon07 Mar 2018 18:34
Nice n Fat:
Pay only what we have already agreed to in the budget then it's hasta la vista baby /media/file/78249.aspx


:thumbup:

More hardball and a f!$%em attitude wouldn't hurt. Certainly for a start need to keep the f!$%ers away from our fishing grounds so that we can manage it sustainably. Britain first as that American twat would say03

The other issue is that our manufacturing in the long run could well benefit if the EU decides to spring tariffs upon us, that would make imports dearer.
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Speed Triple T309


icon07 Mar 2018 18:36
It's apparent to me that everything\everywhere you read and listen to is 99% negative about us leaving the EU but, without the certain benefit of a crystal ball, who knows the final outcome. This doom and gloom makes me wonder whether it's the exact same strategy as pre the referendum and that, in truth, the EU are terrified we'll prosper after we've left. It'll probably be a mixed scenario, but hopefully one that'll broadly work for both. If the politicians get it wrong it'll just fuel more results like we've seen in Italy this week. It's also abundantly clear they're desperate for us not to leave for, mainly, financial reasons.

As for Barnier, his deliberate stance to destabilize the Union and bring down our elected government, shouts out what the EU really think of us - the fact that Juncker and his cronies put him there only hardens my resolve to leave under any circumstances.
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Hov
Sussex,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,497
Rocket III Classic (07-09)


icon07 Mar 2018 20:00
The remain side is better financed (Soros and other vested interests), so they are getting Project Fear MkII in top gear in the run up to 29th March 2019.
It did not work first time and I suspect it will backfire this time too. Particularly each time Tony Blair opens his mouth.

To answer Strat's question; if we actually leave the worst that can happen is we could end up as poor as the Swiss or Norwegians, but with more control of our destiny than they have.
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Henpecked
Gtr Manchester,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,621
Sprint ST (05->)


icon07 Mar 2018 20:18
Baldbloke:
Nice n Fat:
Pay only what we have already agreed to in the budget then it's hasta la vista baby /media/file/78249.aspx


:thumbup:

More hardball and a f!$%em attitude wouldn't hurt. Certainly for a start need to keep the f!$%ers away from our fishing grounds so that we can manage it sustainably. Britain first as that American twat would say03

The other issue is that our manufacturing in the long run could well benefit if the EU decides to spring tariffs upon us, that would make imports dearer.


We would get a better deal if politicians of all shades did what they are elected to do. A vote was cast in the same fashion as elects them to office. Irrespective of the fact that a majority didnt actually vote in favour of pretty much any policy or politician you care to think about once you've included non voters. The political establishment have been happy to use this process to claim their salaries and perks each year. So......

Suck it up put on a united front and reflect the will of the people. It will at least enhance the negotiating position and longer term may lead to a more stable transition.

Having said that if any of them had a backbone we wouldnt have progressed beyond trade agreements into a body that wanted to impose its legal will on everyone. I could go on but its a simple concept is negotiation you win on some you lose on other areas the trick is balance.
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Hov
Sussex,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,497
Rocket III Classic (07-09)


icon07 Mar 2018 20:35
No point negotiating. To the EU we are heretics for daring to leave. They have no intention of letting us get a deal that does not "prove" being in the EU is financially better than being outside. Trade will not cease if we simply cease to be members in 1 year and 22 days.
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~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Posts: 58,177
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon07 Mar 2018 20:52
If there was a second referendum I would vote out, all the more secure in the knowledge that we would be better off out than in....

the mandarins of the EU have shown their true colours, the Italians are on the brink and Merkel wants an end to free movement of bodies as Germany is heaving...

what is the point of a few richer states paying for all the poorer ones...? It makes no sense and the great gift of the EU for baling out the ragtag states, is loss of sovereignty and handing over power to a bunch of unelected faceless individuals....

no ta... not for me... if you want to be led by someone you didn't vote for... or cannot vote out of office for poor performance, then the EU is for you... I want us out... now
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Speed Triple T309


icon07 Mar 2018 22:45
Hov:


To answer Strat's question; if we actually leave the worst that can happen is we could end up as poor as the Swiss or Norwegians, but with more control of our destiny than they have.


:thumbup:

The one that really f!$%s me off is the attempted rubbishing of the city - despite the w!$%ers running it, it will always be the financial centre of Europe. It has the history, the facilities, recruitment, legal system, logistics, etc etc that the rest of the world envy and trust. Despite Goldman Sachs CE making snide comments about 'talks with Frankfurt' I have no doubt 98 -99% of firms will remain in The City happily. Anyway, the rest of the world wants and expects it.
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PaulM
Northampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 727
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon07 Mar 2018 23:32
If I had been in charge of negotiations they would have been started much earlier and been over quickly, no talk of a soft Brexit. The EU have no intention of giving us anything.:frown: They still want our fishing waters cheeky bastards.
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Gladtobebackontwowheels
Dover, Kent,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,141
Daytona T595


icon08 Mar 2018 08:09
Yes, f!$%ing cheeky bastards.
We need to be far more confident of what we DO have and not what we don't. I think we should start stirring the pot by telling the EU they can have access to f!$%-all but we'd be perfectly happy to strike a deal with individual countries! :evil:
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russ999rocket
Swine Town,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,681
Tiger Explorer


icon08 Mar 2018 08:38
Am I the only one who does not give a f!$% anymore about all of it?


Im closing my window on life, just leave me alone....
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Skybone
Highlands,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,956
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon08 Mar 2018 10:04
Whether you're for or against Brexit, this country is teetering on the brink of yet another recession.
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Rob NMTB
Redditch,
United Kingdom

Posts: 54,526
Speed Triple 1050


icon08 Mar 2018 11:47
It's talk like that that brings it on - nowt personal 07

Some press hack comes up with a doom and gloom story. "The city" gets the jitters and suddenly your savings/pension halve in value

The system's rotten to the core :sad:
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Speed Triple T309


icon08 Mar 2018 19:16
russ999rocket:
Am I the only one who does not give a f!$% anymore about all of it?


Im closing my window on life, just leave me alone....


If I could I'd sell up tomorrow but can't currently. Even know where I'd move to and set up a very modest but sustenance style of living. I'm working towards it sooner rather than later.
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lord homertrix stand up
derbyshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 24,377
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon09 Mar 2018 07:15
You will never change what they are going to do. Not more than spending a year or two of your life getting involved in voting and talking s!$%, and possibly do something that saves you 28 pence a week, so best thing is ignore it and don't get involved, so they aren't taking your time and your money.
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russ999rocket
Swine Town,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,681
Tiger Explorer


icon09 Mar 2018 07:35
I have decided to vote Labour now in all up and coming elections and forget the fact that they will f!$% the country up to the point it will fall into the pits of hell.

As I approach OAP status I want increased pension, cold weather payments and anything else they will give me for free.

Hard on my grandkids to pay for it but the western world is f!$%ed, the eastern world is in ascendance and this is the last of the good times, spend it when we can.

Right, I'm off to top myself (not really, golf at 9:00am :grin:)
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lord homertrix stand up
derbyshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 24,377
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon09 Mar 2018 07:45
Who is this labour party you are talking about,
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Skybone
Highlands,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,956
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon09 Mar 2018 09:38
Rob NMTB:
It's talk like that that brings it on - nowt personal 07

Some press hack comes up with a doom and gloom story. "The city" gets the jitters and suddenly your savings/pension halve in value

The system's rotten to the core :sad:


The system is rotten to the core.

Unfortunately, my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with what's being said in the media, it's based on watching what's happening in the market place. Construction is one of the barometers of the UK's economy, being one of the biggest employment sectors in the country, as well as an investment vehicle for financiers.

In recent months, we have seen 2 large construction companies going tits up, we have seen a slow down in works going out to the market due to funding issues, National and Local Government are putting projects on hold or cancelling them due to funding issues, which is especially damaging to the Construction Companies who don't recoup the money they've spent tendering these jobs unless they win them. At the moment, I'm facing redundancy due to this slow down in the market, and it's not looking promising out there either (unless you're in the London bubble).
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GDCobra
North West,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,877
Thruxton (09->)


icon09 Mar 2018 13:31
russ999rocket:


Right, I'm off to top myself (not really, golf at 9:00am :grin:)


Think I prefered option A, don't have to dress like a twat for that.
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,358
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon09 Mar 2018 13:35
russ999rocket:
I have decided to vote Labour now in all up and coming elections and forget the fact that they will f!$% the country up to the point it will fall into the pits of hell.

As I approach OAP status I want increased pension, cold weather payments and anything else they will give me for free.

Hard on my grandkids to pay for it but the western world is f!$%ed, the eastern world is in ascendance and this is the last of the good times, spend it when we can.

Right, I'm off to top myself (not really, golf at 9:00am :grin:)


Golf ??? You really have lost the plot haven't you :lol:
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Hov
Sussex,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,497
Rocket III Classic (07-09)


icon09 Mar 2018 15:34
Skybone:
Rob NMTB:
It's talk like that that brings it on - nowt personal 07

Some press hack comes up with a doom and gloom story. "The city" gets the jitters and suddenly your savings/pension halve in value

The system's rotten to the core :sad:


The system is rotten to the core.

Unfortunately, my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with what's being said in the media, it's based on watching what's happening in the market place. Construction is one of the barometers of the UK's economy, being one of the biggest employment sectors in the country, as well as an investment vehicle for financiers.

In recent months, we have seen 2 large construction companies going tits up, we have seen a slow down in works going out to the market due to funding issues, National and Local Government are putting projects on hold or cancelling them due to funding issues, which is especially damaging to the Construction Companies who don't recoup the money they've spent tendering these jobs unless they win them. At the moment, I'm facing redundancy due to this slow down in the market, and it's not looking promising out there either (unless you're in the London bubble).


Possibly due to SNP lefties scaring off investment? We are taking on staff to build more houses down here - admittedly close to the London Bubble (where house prices are falling, but still slowly rising here)
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Skybone
Highlands,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,956
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon09 Mar 2018 15:46
Nothing to do with the SNP or Scotland on it's own, it's national.

House Building is in it's own little bubble, especially House Building in the South East of England. Larger commercial projects, be they industrial sheds, schools, roads, leisure, etc. appear to be slowing dramatically.
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Katies Grandad
Snot on the Ouse,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,118
Speed Triple 1050


icon09 Mar 2018 19:39
All these things are cyclical. We have been building warehousing and distribution hubs like they're going out of fashion. It has to slow down at some point.
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John Nelson
Coventry,
United Kingdom

Posts: 3,209
Speedmaster


icon09 Mar 2018 20:37
In Coventry city centre everywhere you look there is another big building going up.
Almost all of it is for Coventry University, student accommodation or other buildings.
The one exception I can think of is a swimming and sports thing - but that is to replace the 1960s one that is entirely surrounded by University buildings now and we can be fairly what will happen to that site when the new, smaller facility opens.
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Post Tree
Northamptonshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 5
Enthusiast


icon12 Apr 2018 16:51
Strat, a reasonable question to ask.

Simple answer is that the UK is a NET contributor to the EU finances. That means we give them a lot more than we get back.

The statements you make are not actually true, the Pound has not collapsed, the economy did not collapse after the vote for Brexit, in fact the FTSE 100 soared to an all time high. There was (and is) a lot of scaremongering by remainers but not based on fact.

In the end just remember we are a net contributor to EU finances. That means your taxes are supporting wasted political projects in the EU when it's money that should be spent here in the UK.
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon12 Apr 2018 16:56
:thumbup:
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Speed Triple T309


icon12 Apr 2018 17:46
Post Tree:
Strat, a reasonable question to ask.

Simple answer is that the UK is a NET contributor to the EU finances. That means we give them a lot more than we get back.

The statements you make are not actually true, the Pound has not collapsed, the economy did not collapse after the vote for Brexit, in fact the FTSE 100 soared to an all time high. There was (and is) a lot of scaremongering by remainers but not based on fact.

In the end just remember we are a net contributor to EU finances. That means your taxes are supporting wasted political projects in the EU when it's money that should be spent here in the UK.


One of most succinct and sensible posts I've seen on here.:thumbup:
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Exuptoy
Maesteg, Mid Glam,
United Kingdom

Posts: 15,350
Daytona 675


icon12 Apr 2018 17:52
Obee Wan:

One of most succinct and sensible posts I've seen on here.:thumbup:


To which Strat will be so pissed about that he will tear it to bits trying to accuse you of try to infer you don't know what you are on about and your the same as the rest of us racist leavers!:lol:
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

Speed Triple T309


icon12 Apr 2018 18:18
Exuptoy:
Obee Wan:

One of most succinct and sensible posts I've seen on here.:thumbup:


To which Strat will be so pissed about that he will tear it to bits trying to accuse you of try to infer you don't know what you are on about and your the same as the rest of us racist leavers!:lol:


Let's see him counter these facts then?
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Henpecked
Gtr Manchester,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,621
Sprint ST (05->)


icon12 Apr 2018 22:23
Obee I wholeheartedly agree. We contribute more than we get back.

We import more than we export within the EU many europenas want to come to Britain we should have a strong negotiating position.

Unfortunately politicians of any creed colour or country should be treated with scepticism.

If the EU had stuck with the original idea of making trade easier, standardising rules on trade and promoting strong trading links the idea would probably have been good. See the link?

As usual someone thought "I can make more money" and the politicians decided more and more that we should all have the same rules despite centuries of cultural and social differences enact the same laws etc.

Unfortunately we appear to take a strict interpretation of the rules and implement the hard line version. Other countries when it suits take a lower view and adopt a variation.

Bottom line IMHO Trade is good politics is bad and to take the piss slightly "vive la difference" between nations.

You can never beat the age old adage of treat as you wish to be treated in almost anything at any level.
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