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NextRSSPreviousTech Forums > Performance Tips & Tricks > Upside Down forks on Daytona ???
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robert van der meulen
oud beijerland,
Netherlands

Posts: 9
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon08 Oct 2004 18:52
I am toying with the idea to fit USD forks to my '99 Daytona, preferrably Ohlins ( if I can find them 2nd hand..... 14 ) or 916/999-type Showa.
Has anybody done something like this allready ??.
Any tips, hints or pictures ??

Thanks
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trevski
canterbury,
New Zealand

Posts: 977
Speed Triple T509


icon08 Oct 2004 19:20
usd's

guess anything can be made to fit, if you've got access to engineering tackle, but an easy swap would be nice. have heard
of honda vfr ones been fitted, but don't know how easy it is. 07
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Goldviking
North-Jutland,
Denmark

Posts: 1,323
Daytona 955i (02)


icon09 Oct 2004 18:41
Member Spondonash has a TL thou' USD fork on his bike, and member Steve Phillips used a gixxer thou' fork.
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon09 Oct 2004 23:15
I've used 916/996 Showa items with Brembo calipers, I was able to retain the Triumph wheel as I had a new set of yokes made, allowing the forks to be set the right distance apart.
I had a sleeve/spacer made for the right fork this enabled me to use the stock wheel spindle also, it clamps up ok in the left fork.
The Ducati forks are shorter than the Triumph ones so I had the top yoke stepped to allow for this.
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----KK----
West SX / London,
United Kingdom

Posts: 41,576
Enthusiast


icon10 Oct 2004 18:42
Was it worth all that agro? Not meaning to be rude, seems like a lot of work for possibly not much difference.
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon10 Oct 2004 20:04
Yes it was!! is and will be, I've got a complete one off front end for about a third of the price of a pair of Ohlins
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon10 Oct 2004 22:57
As Dave says, why bother? You won't notice any difference on the road. A track however you may.
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robert van der meulen
oud beijerland,
Netherlands

Posts: 9
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon11 Oct 2004 08:15
I can hardly imagine that there is no noticable difference between USD and conventional forks.
If there would be no difference at all, why does every recent sportbike have them, even if they are supposably a little bit heavier than "conventional" forks ??. I am shure there is more to it than fashion alone.

The thing i am not happy with is that the standard forks seems very prone to stick-slip. This has become much more obvious since i repaced the rear shock with an Ohlins.
I do not want to changing it's appearance too much, i prefer to keep it subtle with using as much original parts if possible.

Theoretically USD-forks should be stiffer and not so prone to stick, als the legs are much longer inside the slider ( and so producing a lighter load on the bushes ) and therefore have smaller diameter.
Even 999's, GSX-R1000 and R1's "only" have 43 mm legs, instead of my Daytona's 45 mm.

Mr.C., did you use the original speedo drive, as on a Ducati this is on the other side.

Any more peole with ideas out there ??
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Goldviking
North-Jutland,
Denmark

Posts: 1,323
Daytona 955i (02)


icon11 Oct 2004 08:27
USD forks looks the business IMHO...... and a one off bike, that's just another 49
Another advantage is the lower unsprung weight.
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon11 Oct 2004 18:04
I had to replace the forks as the OE ones were F****D, So I was able to replace them with items which even standard are better, set up correctly with Ohlins springs they will perform better and they were a lot cheaper! The whole point of doing this project is to have the' bike I want', its also a enjoyable learning process, so in certain respects money is not the main objective.

I used the Triumph wheel so that I could retain the same speedo drive, it only takes a small modification to fit with the Ducati forks, plus I like the OE wheels otherwise they'd have been E-Bayed off in favour of some Dymags
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Jeff Spencer
Southport,
United Kingdom

Posts: 635
Daytona T595


icon11 Oct 2004 22:50
Definately a step in the right direction using USD forks and if you can sell your orig setup you can virtually halve the cost of the conversion.I did mine some time ago with Showa units from an NR750 very rare and trick and work superbly with the Triumph.Billet yokes etc have transformed the bikes handling and I can be sure that it is true one off.All I need now is the paintwork and I can finally call it finished.If anyone is considering the conversion try Dave Silver spares for your forks-rare items are very cheap as there is little demand for them.I got lucky and got the NR items for £240 brand new!Hondas price would have been £3-4 grand.My tip would be to look for a bike with similar weight/characteristics and rare possibly a Jap market only model and give Dave a call-he may have a new set on the shelf gathering dust.
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Richard
Pickering,
Canada

Posts: 522
Daytona T595


icon12 Oct 2004 05:13
Mr C, Don't like the front end on my bike very much. Never made me feel comfortable. Think I'll go the same way you have.

How do you rate the Brembo callipers against the Triumph ones? I've always thought the Triumph brakes were the business, Its the one thing I'd be sorry to loose.
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon12 Oct 2004 19:36
I'm not able to pass judgement yet as the bike isn't due on the road till spring, it may be possible to use the Triumph calipers by having adapter plates made, this will increase the distance between the forks, something to be taken into account when having the yokes made.
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Richard
Pickering,
Canada

Posts: 522
Daytona T595


icon13 Oct 2004 03:50
Ok. Thanks. Always nice to know someone has been there and managed to make it work. Cuts down on the will it/wont it factor.

I'll get busy weilding the tape measure in a few Ducati owners garages before I go near a machine shop.
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robert van der meulen
oud beijerland,
Netherlands

Posts: 9
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon18 Oct 2004 19:09
Yokes ( Yikes ?!??!? )

All you guys who have done a USD-conversion allready, how did you have your yokes machined ??
After a rethink and a discussion with my engineering dad, we came to the conclusion that the holes in the bottom yoke must be machined absolutely true ( CNC only !! ) to each other and the steering stem. Did any of you idicate any tolerances or something to the machining shop ??
Did you use the same clamp sizing on the bottom yoke or make it larger and lower down the fork legs like Ducati 998 or 999 ( these look REALLY massive ).

IMHO the legs will only stick worse if you get it wrong due to the more rigid construction. Steering precision might also be "entertaining".

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Jeff Spencer
Southport,
United Kingdom

Posts: 635
Daytona T595


icon18 Oct 2004 22:54
Mine were machined on a XYZ cnc all bores for the stem and forks are bang on true.Clamp size depends on which forks are getting used as the profile defines the clamping points and dimensions.Accuracy when measuring fork size is key -do not rely on them being to the nearest mm.The dim on the lower clamping point on my forks was 56.4mm and the yoke was bored to match.When the clamp is split a gap of 2mm ensures that the pinch bolts take out any slack and also allow for trouble free fitting/removal of the fork.I still have all the dimensions somewhere and a programmable cad drawing as well I think.Stuart (Homer)had pics of the yokes in the old shop section if he is following this maybe he can put them back up somewhere-tech faq Stu?If you need any help/advice I am only to happy to give you any if you want to email me
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Bluedogz
Havre de Grace, MD,
USA

Posts: 5,051
Enthusiast


icon20 Oct 2004 03:50
Forgive the dumb question

But wouldn't it be easier to seek a set of USD's with a similar diameter in the neck (maybe wrong term here- the part that goes through the frame), then just get the appropriately-sized bearings to allow it to fit into the frame? Then just bolt the whole damn show on in one go.

I would think it's a whole lot easier to get tapered bearings of a specific size than to have yokes machined etc . etc.

This is how I got a Blade front on a Hawk GT/NT650 years ago and it worked great. Obviously, I'm assuming that the overall length of the setup is similar to the Triumph.
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robert van der meulen
oud beijerland,
Netherlands

Posts: 9
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon23 Oct 2004 12:02
Bluedogz,

This might be a possability, but will never be an improvement.
If you look at chassis data it is clear that it can be an improvemet on a Honda Hawk, but not on a Daytona;

First of all handling is determined ( among others ) by headstock angle and trail. Trail is the result of this headstock angle and yoke offset. The steeper the headstock and/or the shorter the trail, the better ( = theoretically more unstable !! ) it will handle.
This is always a compromise between ability to change direction with little effort / precision and stability.

1; A Honda Hawk has a pretty conservative geometry because of it's small size and weight; a longish trail of 112 mm with a 62 degr. headstock angle.
The first generation Fireblade has 89 mm trail at 66 degr. headstock angle, so much more agressive.
If you do some calculations, the outcome is that the original fork yokes on Hawk and Blade have near identical offset, the Blade being a bit longer. So a complete Blade front end in a Hawk will result in a bit less trail making it turn even faster.
Of course this is only so if the fork length is identical.
( Personally I dont see the point as with a better rear shock it already outhandles your brain !!29 ). The 16" frontwheel may even make this advantage undone because of the too large (130 !! ) front tyre.

2: A Daytona has about the most agressive geometry to be found (, about the same as the first generation Blade ).
All bikes which have suitable front ends ( especially Ducati 916-998 and 999 ) have much longer trail with identical headstock angles. ( Even so, these forks are some 7 mm shorter with stepped top yoke and VERY low bars. This will never ever fit inside a Daytona's fairing. )
So any straight front end swap using the yokes which came with the USD-forks will result in a much longer trail, making it more stable ( which is unwanted, it is very stable as it is ) and much more reluctant to change direction.

IMHO the only way to go is one-off yokes, as i want this to work, not only look good....
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Bluedogz
Havre de Grace, MD,
USA

Posts: 5,051
Enthusiast


icon23 Oct 2004 13:54
Ah... makes much more sense now. Sometimes I feel like my sport is passing me by.....
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trevski
canterbury,
New Zealand

Posts: 977
Speed Triple T509


icon23 Oct 2004 15:40
have a look at mario de lisi's profile, he's got a real neet speedtriple with usd's and mv agusta seat. 27 unfortunatly he doesn't say what the forks are off.
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Goldviking
North-Jutland,
Denmark

Posts: 1,323
Daytona 955i (02)


icon23 Oct 2004 16:23
They're Öhlins. Looks like custom made yokes.
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robert van der meulen
oud beijerland,
Netherlands

Posts: 9
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon24 Oct 2004 11:03
They are OEM-type Ohlins.
Looking at the length of the legs they are probably off a Aprilia RSV Mille R or some limited edition Guzzi.
The Ohlins forks which are easiest to find ( over her at least... ) are from Ducati's but they are 7 mm shorter than Triumph forks.
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trevski
canterbury,
New Zealand

Posts: 977
Speed Triple T509


icon30 Oct 2004 14:58
wouldn't have thought been 7mm shorter would make too much difference, slightly quicken the steering if anything.

just bin to the show, new speed triple,mmmmmm the rear end needs some work, but them there usd's and radial brakes look lerrrrrvely !!! 49
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon13 Nov 2004 12:24
Yea, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but they could have waited till I'd finished mine! 03
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon16 Nov 2004 12:51
I just pue a set of USD forks on my bike, check my profile for a picture.
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2004 12:54
kin ell they look smart 49 what were they off and is that a Turbo I see under the oil cooler 05
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon16 Nov 2004 13:05
Forks are 2004 GSXR1000.

Yes it is a turbo... 165hp at the wheel at 7800rpm.
I seem to have a problem, want more power.

My latest project is fitting a 685cc two stroke single into a little RS250 Honda chassis, should be a laugh.

I should also point out that the forks are using the triple clamps that they came with, these have the same stem length as the Triumph.
I used the Triumph lower bearing and put a new bearing in the top. Steve from Race Comp gave me the part number for a bearing that fits the Triumph head and the Suzuki stem.
Previously I had a set of billet clamps with 30mm offset (Standard is 35mm), the 30mm was much better.
The Suzuki is 25mm and feels better again.
Fork springs in the USD forks are standard and I am using the Triumph wheel and brake rotors.

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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2004 13:42
That conversion looks the dogs bollox only problem would be obtaining a set as GSXR`s rarely have a habit of crashing into things backward 09
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon16 Nov 2004 13:45
But they do get raced.
Ohlins forks, billet clamps, brembo brakes..... Lots of spare standard bits.
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2004 14:09
Good point 49 after seeing the 05 SP3 in the flesh the only bit I liked was the forks/front brake set up so I shall be investigating further ...
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Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France

Posts: 3,718
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2004 15:53
did you use the Suzi's front wheel shaft or triumph's? straight swap?
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Bluedogz
Havre de Grace, MD,
USA

Posts: 5,051
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2004 17:40
I sense an upcoming run on the market in '04 GSXR parts....
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon16 Nov 2004 20:54
On my bike I used the Suzuki axle. 1997-2001 Triumphs have the same axle size as the Suzuki so it fits the wheel.
For the 2002 onward it is better to use the Triumph axle and make inserts to fit the Suzuki wheel.
You can even use the Suzuki steering damper.
The only let down on my bike is the top triple clamp. The steering lock is in the wrong position.
I am getting a new top triple clamp made to solve this problem.

If anyone is interested in a kit (bearings, spacers, bolts and top triple clamp) to fit this type of front end they can email me.
The triple clamp will be a bit like the 999 top clamp.
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Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France

Posts: 3,718
Enthusiast


icon17 Nov 2004 09:29
On my bike I used the Suzuki axle. 1997-2001 Triumphs have the same axle size as the Suzuki so it fits the wheel.

no problem with the speedo sender or spacers??
I'm sourcing a set of forks as we speak, how much for the top bearing/yokes kit Wayne?
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Andy B
Naked in Staines,
United Kingdom

Posts: 887
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon17 Nov 2004 10:02
04 suzy forks do seem the way forward .....

USD and radial brakes .... the 2 main reasons i'd buy (if i had the cash) the new S3 ..

I can live without another 100cc and those pipes
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon17 Nov 2004 10:03
That is exactly the way I feel 49
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Mr.C
southampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,980
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon17 Nov 2004 22:51
Paul

When I was doing a bit of research into it I was over at Cresents in Verwood, chucked in the corner were some sets of OE forks, not only do they set up the Rizla bikes but customers have Ohlins fitted from new, hence the left over standard jobbies, they aint cheap though!! give 'em a bell
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Jeff Spencer
Southport,
United Kingdom

Posts: 635
Daytona T595


icon17 Nov 2004 23:07
If you get Ducati forks or other Showas you can get the fork bottoms changed for radial mounts or alternatively have the mounts cnc machined.Triumph went to a huge amount of effort to upgrade the already excellent braking on the front end of its triples-it will be interesting to see if the new system is really that much better in the real world of street riding or whether they have just followed the trend re radial calipers.If I could afford it I would personally go for rim mounts-Braking do a kit which includes a new front wheel for around a grand.Aesthetically IMHO preferable as the front wheel looks less cluttered in the same way an sssa cleans up the rear.
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon18 Nov 2004 05:45
The radial brakes feel very good.
I have had a few people ride the bike and they all like the feel.
Now that I have a Suzuki front end and a Subaru turbo, I will have to call the bike a Trizukibaru.
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Bluedogz
Havre de Grace, MD,
USA

Posts: 5,051
Enthusiast


icon18 Nov 2004 12:19
At 168 bhp I might like the feel of the thing coming to a a stop any way possible, even if I have to carry an anchor around on my back.....
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon18 Nov 2004 13:24
Cheers Mr C a damn good idea 49

When you say "they ain`t cheap" did they mention a figure ???
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Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France

Posts: 3,718
Enthusiast


icon19 Nov 2004 02:05
guess who just won a set of 2004 gixxer forks for 180 quids on ebay....


YUM !!!

next I need the calipers.... anyone knows if the kwaki radial jobby fits the gixxer's forks?
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Wayne Macdonald
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 493
Daytona T595


icon19 Nov 2004 05:09
Erick.
Did you get the top and bottom clamps and steering damper?
Callipers can be had on EBay for anything from $43 to $100 USD
GSXR600 and 750 callipers are the same as the 1000.
I would stick with the Suzuki parts as I know they line up with the rotors.
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Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France

Posts: 3,718
Enthusiast


icon19 Nov 2004 07:36
nope Wayne, just the forks legs, I will stick with Suzi parts as you suggest.

now I need to find:

calipers
bottom clamps
wheel axle
top clamp + bearing

Am I missing something Wayne? Also, i'm still interested in the price of that kit of yours (top yokes+bearing)

thanx mate!


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RC
.,
Zimbabwe

Posts: 568
Speed Triple 1050


icon19 Nov 2004 07:53
RaceComp's 97/01 Triumph steering damper

Hi Guys,

I’ve just fitted a Hyperpro steering damper to our 2001 Daytona. I made a fitting kit for it as Hyperpro don’t make one.. It will fit any Daytona/Speed Triple from 1997-2001 A kit is also available to fit the GSXR top clamp. Cost of the Damper and fitting kit is approximately AU$800.00.Check out my profile for the pictures.

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trevski
canterbury,
New Zealand

Posts: 977
Speed Triple T509


icon19 Nov 2004 19:11
sure looks the part, how did you fit the bracket to the frame...drill and tap? nicely done to be sure. 01
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 25,204
Enthusiast


icon19 Nov 2004 21:24
Oi, Mr Philips, get back to making the carbon bits you slacker 01
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RC
.,
Zimbabwe

Posts: 568
Speed Triple 1050


icon19 Nov 2004 23:56
32s!$%!!!!!! I can’t hide anywhere on this site. LOL…. OK Tony I’ll get back to work….. I’ll just finish cleaning the BBQ after a beautiful pommie breakfast!!! Now were did I put my sunny’s……. 33
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Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France

Posts: 3,718
Enthusiast


icon21 Nov 2004 18:57
Wayne,

are you positive about your offset value? it looks like the gixxer thou has 32mm offset.
the 600 has 20mm so it seems, so maybe you got 750's items ?

oh I found a set of radial calipers and a front axle, just need to sort out the clamps / bearing story.
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Richard
Pickering,
Canada

Posts: 522
Daytona T595


icon27 Nov 2004 05:35
Erick, I've done the same as you, bought a complete 04 Suzuki front end from Ebay, $650usd, brakes, bars, yokes, everything.

Hasn't arrived yet, biting my nails. Seller claims, fits 600/750.

I'd be interested to know how you came by the different offset values for each model, I thought they were all the same - and how your getting on fitting them? Anything ??
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