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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon20 Dec 2011 11:29
Small Meccano tractor:
Brett Beach:
personally i think the project is bad ass. why not have something new and different? to hell with all the negativity {Big Bang Theory}. keep up the good work!


Re - read the thread, twat. I haven't been negative about it anywhere.


For someone who's not interested in the project you sure do have a few comments to make! :lol:
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Jim Lindsay
East Anglia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Speed Triple 1050


icon20 Dec 2011 22:08
Small Meccano tractor:
Brett Beach:
personally i think the project is bad ass. why not have something new and different? to hell with all the negativity {Big Bang Theory}. keep up the good work!


Re - read the thread, twat. I haven't been negative about it anywhere.


Now then, small meccano tractor, calling people twats is a bad idea.
Let's discuss interesting matters instead. That's a load more fun.

What, for example, is your view on the brakes we should use? Well you or anyone else for that matter.

Best wishes.

Jim
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon20 Dec 2011 22:13
Brembo pinless lithium monoblocs - only £2795 each. Plus pads. Plus vat.

Or if you want something cheaper, I have a new pair of Nissin 4 pots in the garage, off a 12 Bandit, lol.
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~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 86,001
Enthusiast


icon20 Dec 2011 22:14
/media/file/40847.aspx


jims these looks lush mate
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 14,798
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon20 Dec 2011 22:22
Nice Tim...or something along these lines....again I guess it depends on a cost limit....

/media/file/14104.aspx
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~EARL~
gods country wales,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 86,001
Enthusiast


icon20 Dec 2011 22:29
i blame ash, he's gonna cost me a fortune on my 1050 :blush:
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 14,798
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon20 Dec 2011 22:35
I prefer the Beringer calliper

PS - No wavey disks pls. :smile:
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon20 Dec 2011 22:40
I've got a brand new Braking wave disc still in its packaging in my loft for my TDR, very nice it is too.
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Jim Lindsay
East Anglia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Speed Triple 1050


icon20 Dec 2011 22:52
Definitely no wavy discs. I hate the things. The first choice for anybody building a one-off or a top production bike is Brembo - like Triumph themselves use.
AP Racing make some good brakes but they look ancient (OK I know it's only fashion but it does count).
PFM use cast iron rotors not cast stainless so a tiny dose of damp makes the rust.
We're not exactly spoilt for choice here.
Oh well, I can put it off for a bit. We haven't even got it on its wheels yet.
Alarmingly, I hear that we are on the front page of MCN tomorrow. All a bit much really. I'm very pleased and suitably humbled but I never thought we would get that much interest.
Maybe it's just a slow week for news.

Cheers all.

Jim

Small Meccano tractor:
Brembo pinless lithium monoblocs - only £2795 each. Plus pads. Plus vat.

Or if you want something cheaper, I have a new pair of Nissin 4 pots in the garage, off a 12 Bandit, lol.

OK, I'll take the Brembos. Anyone want to buy a nice black cat? Six grand - bargain. Comes with own food bowl.
No?
How about a boat anchor?:smile:

Jim
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 14,798
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon20 Dec 2011 22:58
we are on the front page of MCN tomorrow:


Nice. :thumbup: But careful you don't get built up for a fall......
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Jim Lindsay
East Anglia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Speed Triple 1050


icon20 Dec 2011 22:59
J-Zeus:
we are on the front page of MCN tomorrow:


Nice. :thumbup: But careful you don't get built up for a fall......


J-Zeus, you're a mind reader. That is EXACTLY what will be keeping me awake tonight.:beatup:

Jim
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 14,798
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon20 Dec 2011 23:04
Do we at TT get a mention?!!! LOL :lol:

" Yeah, and then I stumbled across this complete set of divs at TT " :lol:
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon20 Dec 2011 23:19
How about Harrison, if you want to keep it British?

http://www.billet.co.uk/index2.html?home...
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Si
Chesterfield,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Daytona 675


icon21 Dec 2011 07:53
It looks amazing.
We have thought about doing something similar with an ex Spondon frame builder. Just don't know if we can lay out all that money on a whim!
Austin Racing indeed make the exhaust. They are working with us on new systems for the Daytona and Street Triples. Top quality work.

Would I have one, YES.
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Mark
Sheffield,
United Kingdom

Posts: 673
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon21 Dec 2011 13:33
Hello Si ! :lol:
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 14,798
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon21 Dec 2011 13:39
Jim - is your phone ringing red-hot? :lol:
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Spondonsnake
Herefordshire.,
United Kingdom

Posts: 6,353
Enthusiast


icon22 Dec 2011 03:08
I would get in touch with Harrison Billet Engineering, they would be the perfect people to get involved with a project like this.They produce radial calipers which are a must nowadays and stainless discs and importantly for this sort of thing they are British.
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon22 Dec 2011 15:46
Er, didn't I already suggest that?
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orson cart
Reading,
United Kingdom

Daytona T595


icon22 Dec 2011 16:04
Jim Lindsay:
Definitely no wavy discs. I hate the things. The first choice for anybody building a one-off or a top production bike is Brembo - like Triumph themselves use.
AP Racing make some good brakes but they look ancient (OK I know it's only fashion but it does count).
PFM use cast iron rotors not cast stainless so a tiny dose of damp makes the rust.
We're not exactly spoilt for choice here.
Oh well, I can put it off for a bit. We haven't even got it on its wheels yet.
Alarmingly, I hear that we are on the front page of MCN tomorrow. All a bit much really. I'm very pleased and suitably humbled but I never thought we would get that much interest.
Maybe it's just a slow week for news.

Cheers all.

Jim

Small Meccano tractor:
Brembo pinless lithium monoblocs - only £2795 each. Plus pads. Plus vat.

Or if you want something cheaper, I have a new pair of Nissin 4 pots in the garage, off a 12 Bandit, lol.

OK, I'll take the Brembos. Anyone want to buy a nice black cat? Six grand - bargain. Comes with own food bowl.
No?
How about a boat anchor?:smile:

Jim


try pretech they're based in Reading Jim ask for Chris.
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Owd Bluey
Derbyshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 443
Bonneville (09->)


icon22 Dec 2011 16:09
orson cart:
Jim Lindsay:
Definitely no wavy discs. I hate the things. The first choice for anybody building a one-off or a top production bike is Brembo - like Triumph themselves use.
AP Racing make some good brakes but they look ancient (OK I know it's only fashion but it does count).
PFM use cast iron rotors not cast stainless so a tiny dose of damp makes the rust.
We're not exactly spoilt for choice here.
Oh well, I can put it off for a bit. We haven't even got it on its wheels yet.
Alarmingly, I hear that we are on the front page of MCN tomorrow. All a bit much really. I'm very pleased and suitably humbled but I never thought we would get that much interest.
Maybe it's just a slow week for news.

Cheers all.

Jim

Small Meccano tractor:
Brembo pinless lithium monoblocs - only £2795 each. Plus pads. Plus vat.

Or if you want something cheaper, I have a new pair of Nissin 4 pots in the garage, off a 12 Bandit, lol.

OK, I'll take the Brembos. Anyone want to buy a nice black cat? Six grand - bargain. Comes with own food bowl.
No?
How about a boat anchor?:smile:

Jim


try pretech they're based in Reading Jim ask for Chris.


Yes, they are lovely and a revelation in performance terms.
/media/file/80447.aspx
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Nige
Tuesday so must be,
Belgium

Premier Member
Posts: 7,609
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)


icon28 Dec 2011 16:33
When it comes to the frame builder you would expect that with all their experience of building racing frames of various types that Tigcraft would get it right.

I like the look of it and am interested to see how it turns out at the end of the day.
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 24,674
Enthusiast


icon28 Dec 2011 20:03
Quote:
building racing frames


:speechless:
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon29 Dec 2011 16:33
Jim
I know you are trying to keep the weight down but i think a single sided swing arm would finish the rear of nicely. The few kg weight penalty would be worth it for the looks.
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon29 Dec 2011 18:28
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon30 Dec 2011 10:30
Boring telly repeats:
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.


Point taken but I think this bike is more about style than outright performance and in the real world I don't think many people would notice the difference a couple of kilo would make.
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon30 Dec 2011 16:10
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.


Point taken but I think this bike is more about style than outright performance and in the real world I don't think many people would notice the difference a couple of kilo would make.


Then either you're missing the point of the project, or I am... 40
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon30 Dec 2011 17:13
Boring telly repeats:
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.


Point taken but I think this bike is more about style than outright performance and in the real world I don't think many people would notice the difference a couple of kilo would make.


Then either you're missing the point of the project, or I am... 40


i dont think either of us are missing the point, its just down to personal preference. I reckon that if the option of a SSSA was available when ordering the Enigma, the majority of buyers would opt for it.
I'm guessing MV and Ducati stick with SSSA because they look better not perform better.
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon30 Dec 2011 17:53
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.


Point taken but I think this bike is more about style than outright performance and in the real world I don't think many people would notice the difference a couple of kilo would make.


Then either you're missing the point of the project, or I am... 40


i dont think either of us are missing the point, its just down to personal preference


We're not talking about personal preference, we're talking about the purpose of the project. You said it's more about style than performance, but my interpretation is that the project is primarily about improving performance, so one of us is missing the point.

Seems to me that adding the weight of a single sider would be totally at odds with the thinking behind the project, adding weight (and more importantly, unsprung weight) for the sake of cosmetics. Single sided swingers were only ever designed for endurance racing, where the quicker wheel changes were worth the extra weight (and even that's not a valid reason now, with modern quick change race setups with captive calipers etc).
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon30 Dec 2011 18:11
Boring telly repeats:
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
Jack Meoff:
Boring telly repeats:
No point going to the lengths of building a new frame to save weight if you're then going to negate the weight saving with a heavier swingarm. And don't forget that it's not just extra weight - it's extra unsprung weight.


Point taken but I think this bike is more about style than outright performance and in the real world I don't think many people would notice the difference a couple of kilo would make.


Then either you're missing the point of the project, or I am... 40


i dont think either of us are missing the point, its just down to personal preference


We're not talking about personal preference, we're talking about the purpose of the project. You said it's more about style than performance, but my interpretation is that the project is primarily about improving performance, so one of us is missing the point.

Seems to me that adding the weight of a single sider would be totally at odds with the thinking behind the project, adding weight (and more importantly, unsprung weight) for the sake of cosmetics. Single sided swingers were only ever designed for endurance racing, where the quicker wheel changes were worth the extra weight (and even that's not a valid reason now, with modern quick change race setups with captive calipers etc).


In my original post I was talking about my personal preference.
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon30 Dec 2011 20:10
Sigh (alright if I borrow that, ST?). I wasn't talking about your original post, I'm talking about your assertion that the project is about style over performance, which the way I'm interpreting the project is completely wrong.
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon31 Dec 2011 02:49
OK you are right, I am wrong. 47
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon31 Dec 2011 16:14
I said one of us was wrong. We're saying two opposite things, so one of us has to be, but you're not getting the point and it's getting f!$%ing boring now.
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Jim Lindsay
East Anglia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Speed Triple 1050


icon03 Jan 2012 10:35
Jack Meoff has to one of the best forum names gets. I'll be grinning about that one for several weeks.:smile:
The project is engineering led so we will always go for what we think will work best. That means a double sided swingarm. I take the point that single sided component would perhaps look better but one of our main aims with the project is to get the weight down as much as possible so we can make good use of that amazing engine. Every kilo counts.
X-Man, do I take your quote to mean that a guy who builds racing frames is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to building a road going frame?
Happy New Year everyone.
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X-Man
North Lincs,
United Kingdom

Posts: 24,674
Enthusiast


icon03 Jan 2012 13:09
Nope, not a disadvantage. just that designing a 'racing' frame is (IMHO) very different from designing a 'road' frame since they are built for very different conditions. Building them will be the same.Its the designing that calls for different approachs (althoguh much will be the same with reference to weak points). Even Triumph get it wrong....amongst others who have had frame issues.....
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon03 Jan 2012 22:37
Those headstocks on early T5 frames weren't meant to fall off?
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No More Alan Partridge
Wilts Not Brummigham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 2,991
Enthusiast


icon03 Jan 2012 23:19
Nah they weren't supposed to be running long enough for it to happen, the 4th gear should have exploded long before the headstock broke :frown::tongueout:
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon03 Jan 2012 23:21
True.
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Spondonsnake
Herefordshire.,
United Kingdom

Posts: 6,353
Enthusiast


icon04 Jan 2012 08:04
I love SSSA but if I was building a bike as light as possible it wouldn't even enter the equation unfortunately. You can't beat the look but you pay the price weight wise.

Jim Lindsay:
Jack Meoff has to one of the best forum names gets. I'll be grinning about that one for several weeks.:smile:
The project is engineering led so we will always go for what we think will work best. That means a double sided swingarm. I take the point that single sided component would perhaps look better but one of our main aims with the project is to get the weight down as much as possible so we can make good
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Triplejak
Paraguay,
United Kingdom

Posts: 9,519
Speed Triple 1050


icon04 Jan 2012 12:14
Not actively following this project, however with the SSSA debate (if thats what it is) I bought the S3 because it had the SSSA rather than the Street (which as we know doesn't).

I have no doubt that for my limited ability that the Street will far out strip my skills but I had to have the SSSA.

Dunno if you intend to sell this Enigma as a production model (not gonna trawl through 6 pages) but it may be a selling point if you do!
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon04 Jan 2012 17:33
Triplejak:
Not actively following this project, however with the SSSA debate (if thats what it is) I bought the S3 because it had the SSSA rather than the Street (which as we know doesn't).

I have no doubt that for my limited ability that the Street will far out strip my skills but I had to have the SSSA.

Dunno if you intend to sell this Enigma as a production model (not gonna trawl through 6 pages) but it may be a selling point if you do!


:thumbup::thumbup:
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Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon05 Jan 2012 08:21
Or will put just as many people off, if they're looking for what the project is about - reduced weight & increased performance.
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Jim Lindsay
East Anglia,
United Kingdom

Posts: 42
Speed Triple 1050


icon05 Jan 2012 10:47
Boring telly repeats:
Or will put just as many people off, if they're looking for what the project is about - reduced weight & increased performance.


Good point B Telly Reps. You got exactly what the project is about.
We are more interested in function than fashion and that rules out an SSA however pretty they look.

X-Man:
Nope, not a disadvantage. just that designing a 'racing' frame is (IMHO) very different from designing a 'road' frame since they are built for very different conditions. Building them will be the same.Its the designing that calls for different approachs (althoguh much will be the same with reference to weak points). Even Triumph get it wrong....amongst others who have had frame issues.....


X-Man, not sure that they are designed for different conditions in terms of the nature of the forces to which they are subjected. The forces on a race frame are greater for shorter periods, but, with the possible exception of hitting a pothole on the road, the nature of the forces is the same.
We are using more weighty components than we would on a race frame to take account of the fact that the bike will see more miles than a race bike and obviously conditions such as rider comfort and fuel tank range all have an influence on the design.
Having said that, I am going to subject the bike to rigorous testing before we even think of making production models. We'll start at a proving ground, put a couple of thousand of road miles on it after that and finish off with a few track days. I'll be doing most of the testing, including the first ride, but we will also be engaging a professional test rider for some of the initial tests.

Happy New Year everyone.

Jim
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Jack Meoff
Romford,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,166
Daytona 955i (04-06)


icon05 Jan 2012 11:03
Jim Lindsay:
Boring telly repeats:
Or will put just as many people off, if they're looking for what the project is about - reduced weight & increased performance.


Good point B Telly Reps. You got exactly what the project is about.
We are more interested in function than fashion and that rules out an SSA however pretty they look.

X-Man:
Nope, not a disadvantage. just that designing a 'racing' frame is (IMHO) very different from designing a 'road' frame since they are built for very different conditions. Building them will be the same.Its the designing that calls for different approachs (althoguh much will be the same with reference to weak points). Even Triumph get it wrong....amongst others who have had frame issues.....


X-Man, not sure that they are designed for different conditions in terms of the nature of the forces to which they are subjected. The forces on a race frame are greater for shorter periods, but, with the possible exception of hitting a pothole on the road, the nature of the forces is the same.
We are using more weighty components than we would on a race frame to take account of the fact that the bike will see more miles than a race bike and obviously conditions such as rider comfort and fuel tank range all have an influence on the design.
Having said that, I am going to subject the bike to rigorous testing before we even think of making production models. We'll start at a proving ground, put a couple of thousand of road miles on it after that and finish off with a few track days. I'll be doing most of the testing, including the first ride, but we will also be engaging a professional test rider for some of the initial tests.

Happy New Year everyone.

Jim


Did I mention I'm a professional test rider having helped develop Rossi's Ducati as well as the Puch Maxi?
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TQ
OXFORDSHIRE,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 35,261
Speed Triple 1050


icon05 Jan 2012 11:03
sounds ace Jim, good luck:smile::thumbup:
-
Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon05 Jan 2012 13:49
Jim Lindsay:
Boring telly repeats:
Or will put just as many people off, if they're looking for what the project is about - reduced weight & increased performance.


Good point B Telly Reps. You got exactly what the project is about.
We are more interested in function than fashion and that rules out an SSA however pretty they look.

Jim


:thumbup: Would be crazy to go to those lengths reducing the weight of the frame, only to then negate it with a heavy SSSA, just for the sake of cosmetics (and that's the only reason to fit one, modern racebike setups mean their original raison d'etre is redundant anyway).
-
TQ
OXFORDSHIRE,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 35,261
Speed Triple 1050


icon05 Jan 2012 14:13
i loved my 1050 speed triple....but it weighed a tonn:lol::lol: so make it light n agile:smile::thumbup:
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Oggs
Northwest,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 21,780
Trident 900


icon05 Jan 2012 18:45
I loved my 955i Speed Triple but I weighed a ton :sad:
-
Chococat
The drugs do work.,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 38,891
Street Triple R


icon05 Jan 2012 22:46
triple queen aka tq:
i loved my 1050 speed triple....but it weighed a tonn:lol::lol: so make it light n agile:smile::thumbup:


My 675 is light and agile. If they gave it the full fat Daytona engine it'd be as fast in a straight line as the 1050 too (which is why they won't...).
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Badmiker
In my own world.,
United Kingdom

Posts: 454
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)


icon06 Jan 2012 15:04
re. road v. race

Comes down to ultimate versus fatigue loads. Something might be well strong enough for the worst a 30min race can throw at it, but road has to withstand 30 years.

(FYI fatigue damage is related to cubic load)

Have you run any FMEA on the frame?

IIRC original Trump frame failures were down to poor castings; another black art, not to poor design.

Nice project though. Any more recent pics
-
TQ
OXFORDSHIRE,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 35,261
Speed Triple 1050


icon06 Jan 2012 15:14
yes ade...i agree:smile: i like my bike i got now, its different:smile:
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