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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon14 Nov 2011 14:13
Am I the only one who thinks offering the Explorer with ABS and Cruise Control as standard is a strange thing to do when on the GS Cruise Control isn't an option and ABS will cost you about £900 on top of the list price?

Or put another way how cheap could Triumph make the Explorer if these two features were cost options and not standard equipment?
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 14:17
Isnt that a 'special' launch model only, limited run etc ?
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon14 Nov 2011 14:17
Ahhh, somethin gthat those who have paid deposits for may regret as the price could drop :lol:

Probably not a great deal less, maybe up to £1000 max, but isn't ABS going to be compulsory soon?
As for cruise control, well, that's not needed on a bike at all.
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 14:25
SpeedTrip:
Isnt that a 'special' launch model only, limited run etc ?


nope, taint ...

seem to stress this

..... and uses a new ride-by-wire throttle system. That enables the use of switchable traction control, ABS and even standard-fitment cruise control–something we usually just see on the big full-boat baggers and tourers.
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Rob NMTB
Redditch,
United Kingdom

Posts: 54,527
Speed Triple 1050


icon14 Nov 2011 14:27
ABS will be compulsory (2014 I think 44)

I'm not sure cruise control would add much to the price, with modern fly by wire etc
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 14:32
Oi !

I patented that wicker TB 03
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Rob NMTB
Redditch,
United Kingdom

Posts: 54,527
Speed Triple 1050


icon14 Nov 2011 14:48
In 190? 4403
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon14 Nov 2011 14:56
I'd have thought from a sales perspective that offering a 'basic' bike that the customer can then spec up would have been the best way to go? It would certainly have made the basic spec bike cheaper than it will now be due to the ABS & CC
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 14:58
As regards the cruise control Triumph don't have to copy BMW with everything you know! Does give the marketing guys something more to crow about!

As regards it's usefulness, I could have done with it on the trip to Austria as my hand was getting quite sore and stiff - I know, poof!

And I think it's a good idea to have ABS as standard, particularly now that its sorted. As has been said it looks as though it will be compulsory anyway and perhaps having it as standard reduces the cost slightly due to economy of scale and not having to cater for both options?

I guess that it gets specified most times on the BMW anyway and so any cost saving by not having it on the Triumph really wouldn't figure that much?
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon14 Nov 2011 15:00
I just wonder how much cheaper the Explorer could have been without them?
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 15:07
But for the market it's aimed at, like BMW and the forthcoming Trophy, I don't think most buyers will be worried about it being a few hundred pounds cheaper, particularly as they tend to want their bikes pretty well speced anyway?
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Cat Funt
Fuck off Bignose,
United Kingdom

Posts: 19,587
Tiger Explorer


icon14 Nov 2011 15:09
We don't know the definate price yet, but do see where you're coming from.

Maybe if they'd made the bike a bit smaller & put a smaller, cheaper engine in it, say 800cc, then it would be even cheaper:tongueout:
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 16:11
Rob NMTB:
In 190? 4403



nope, once when you were planning a trip to the De Haviland place I recall ....
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Barney
Jurassic Coast,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,755
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)


icon14 Nov 2011 18:06
TO buy one of these the next time you go on a long tour fantastic bit of kit for the money. Makes motorway work and fast A roads a doddle
http://www.scottoiler.com/uk/Accessories...
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom

Posts: 51,831
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 19:14
Paul 'the' Bastard:
Am I the only one who thinks offering the Explorer with ABS and Cruise Control as standard is a strange thing to do when on the GS Cruise Control isn't an option and ABS will cost you about £900 on top of the list price?

Or put another way how cheap could Triumph make the Explorer if these two features were cost options and not standard equipment?


switchable ABS is £1000

http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/motorcycle...
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 21:27
I know what you are saying but as I inferred Triumph aren't looking to do cheap with the Tiger1200 and Trophy ranges.

To win sales against BMW they don't really need to undercut them. Quality and other values are more important at the higher end.

How many times have we said it's a pity Triumph didn't spend a little more on components etc. and produce a really good bike rather than just a good one?

This is them doing just that I think?
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon14 Nov 2011 21:34
When Triumph started they went directly head to head with BMW with regards to quality and prices.
It seems they are doing the same now, and why not?
Fair play to them as we don't want riff-raff on a Triumph.
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon14 Nov 2011 21:56
Hear, hear!
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Cat Funt
Fuck off Bignose,
United Kingdom

Posts: 19,587
Tiger Explorer


icon15 Nov 2011 07:42
:thumbup::lol:
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

Posts: 9,350
Sprint ST (05->)


icon15 Nov 2011 08:53
It wouldn't make it any cheaper.

The production / marketing / logistic / stock handling costs of having bikes with ABS and without ABS would out-weigh the savings of not actually fitting the pump/control unit.

And if you have a fly by wire throttle all the components for cruise control are already on the bike - with the exception of the 'set' button on the handlebars. So if you can offer a bonus feature like cruise control for the cost of a 40p switch from Maplins, why not?
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon15 Nov 2011 12:39
Tigeralorange:
I know what you are saying but as I inferred Triumph aren't looking to do cheap with the Tiger1200 and Trophy ranges.

To win sales against BMW they don't really need to undercut them. Quality and other values are more important at the higher end.

How many times have we said it's a pity Triumph didn't spend a little more on components etc. and produce a really good bike rather than just a good one?

This is them doing just that I think?


I think you're wrong ....... to take sales away from BMW, Triumph need not only to undercut them but to also offer better value for money and to me offering the bike with ABS as standard (even taking away the cost implication) is a bit strange

The 10,000 mile service interval is a great start and one that I hope other manufacturers will follow

I was in my local BMW dealer yesterday and noted that BMW have no new models (apart from two scooters) in their range for 2012 unless you wish to class the R1200GS Rally (white paint/red frame)as a new model?

The real test will be to see if GS riders start buying the Explorer in decent numbers. There's a fair bit of interest in the Explporer on the various GS forums but as yet no one there (unlike here) has admitted to putting down a deposit
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom

Posts: 51,831
Enthusiast


icon15 Nov 2011 19:56
I wonder how many GS's get bought without the ABS option ?
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Fen Black
Cambridgeshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,848
Tiger 800XC


icon15 Nov 2011 21:17
[quote=Paul 'the' BastardI was in my local BMW dealer yesterday and noted that BMW have no new models (apart from two scooters) in their range for 2012 unless you wish to class the R1200GS Rally (white paint/red frame)as a new model?

Shouldn't that be a R1200GS Rally R, if it has a red frame :smirk:
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon15 Nov 2011 21:17
PtB

We'll have to see, but rather than taking sales from existing BMW owners who like Triumph owners are very loyal to the brand, it may well be guys who fancied an adventurer type bike but didn't want to go down the BMW route (like me for instance).

Obviously there will be those who are already into Triumph and those with Japanese tourers who will no doubt be interested as Triumph have at long last given them the opportunity to buy a British bike that they want.

It was the same when I had my Sprint Exec. - I had a Yammie XS850 at the time but wanted someting with a fairing, preferably a half-fairing for fast touring. Triumph had the ideal bike in the Sprint and it was British - if they hadn't I would probably have bought Jap. again.

I agree that guys want value for money but still reckon that most buyers won't choose just because one's cheaper than the other.

As I said in this sector of the market most won't be making a decision on whether one bikes a few hundred pounds cheaper or not. It will be on whether it ticks all the boxes, including quality, marque, desirability and being British.

One things for certain though, they're going to sell loads! :lol:
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon15 Nov 2011 22:15
I still can't get over the fact that a new car is going to be the same price, if not cheaper.
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Rob NMTB
Redditch,
United Kingdom

Posts: 54,527
Speed Triple 1050


icon16 Nov 2011 08:43
Haven't small cars always been cheaper than big bikes ?44
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2011 09:34
Blizzard:
I wonder how many GS's get bought without the ABS option ?


Not sure on that one Blizz but I bought one and Salty bought two without the ABS option
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2011 10:55
Tigeralorange:
PtB

We'll have to see, but rather than taking sales from existing BMW owners who like Triumph owners are very loyal to the brand, it may well be guys who fancied an adventurer type bike but didn't want to go down the BMW route (like me for instance).



I think there's lots of options out there now if you want a plus 1000cc 'adventure' style bike and both Honda and now Kawasaki have recently joined the group. So that's three new models in that class for 2012 alone

I believe that price is all important and Triumph should be offering the Explorer with ABS and Cruise Control as a cost option so as to enable the bike to be offered at a much cheaper price so they can bat the likes of Kawasaki into the outfield

Chris S suggests

Chris S:
It wouldn't make it any cheaper.

The production / marketing / logistic / stock handling costs of having bikes with ABS and without ABS would out-weigh the savings of not actually fitting the pump/control unit.

And if you have a fly by wire throttle all the components for cruise control are already on the bike - with the exception of the 'set' button on the handlebars. So if you can offer a bonus feature like cruise control for the cost of a 40p switch from Maplins, why not?


I don't know so much about the Cruise Control only costing the manufacturer an additional £0.40 pence? but do know that ABS systems (pumps/modulators) cost shed loads when purchased as a replacement part and as Blizz has already said ABS is now a £1000 cost option on the BMW GS & GSA

I'm confident that Triumph will sell plenty but believe that the bike needs to be good enough to attract riders from other brands such as BMW if it is truely to be judged a complete success :smile:
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,405
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon16 Nov 2011 11:37
ABS was standard on the 2005 Varadero :tongueout: :evil:
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2011 11:40
I can't wait to see the new Explorer at the NEC .... I just hope it's not as flimsy looking in the metal as the Tiger 800 :speechless:
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,405
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon16 Nov 2011 11:42
Paul 'the' Bastard:
I can't wait to see the new Explorer at the NEC .... I just hope it's not as flimsy looking in the metal as the Tiger 800 :speechless:


Me too, when you thinking of going then Paul ?
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Nice n Fat
Wilts, Berks & Hants,
United Kingdom

Bonneville (01-08)


icon16 Nov 2011 11:43
I'm thinking the last Sunday at present but that may change
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Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,676
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 12:27
In MCN today they grill the boss of BMW Motorrad about the rivals to the GS. As usual, he's quite dismissive, saying the Triumph looks "unfinished".
From the bloke who walks past boxes and boxes of warranty returns everyday..
German Humour...
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 12:36
oxymoron ....
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:16
Cantbearsed:
In MCN today they grill the boss of BMW Motorrad about the rivals to the GS. As usual, he's quite dismissive, saying the Triumph looks "unfinished".
From the bloke who walks past boxes and boxes of warranty returns everyday..
German Humour...


And no mention of what he considers to be unfinished! Don't know why they keep talking to him, always talks a load of bollocks! And not worried by Triumph and others??!! :lol:

PtB
The Kawasaki is only £9500 so no way can Triumph lower their price enough to pitch against that bike and that would be a mistake as that would percieve them to be a more budget orientated brand rather than the premium brand they see themselves as and is generally the case.

In fact MCN don't see them as a competitor either as they list the BMW1200GS, Honda Crosstourer and Ducati Multistrada as the Explorer's rivals.

Elsewhere in a piece on the Kawasaki they mention the Tiger 1050 as Triumph's competitor to it.

I know we're guessing to some extent but I still don't see reducing the cost slightly by not having cruise control and ABS as standard making any difference to the number that Triumph sell. They sell nowhere the number of bikes that BMW do and they will sell plenty of bikes (probably all they can make?) with those options as standard plus other goodies.

As I keep saying this bike is aimed at the premier sector and there are plenty of guys with the money, as with those who buy BMW's, who will buy the Explorer. They don't want a cheaper product!
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,405
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon16 Nov 2011 13:27
Theyre all offering this stuff now , just look at the spec for the 2012 Versys 1000.

2012 Kawasaki Versys 1000 Key Features

- Long-travel suspension front & rear allows riders to enjoy sports and touring riding on a variety of streets and conditions
- Upright and very comfortable riding position offers a high level of control with confidence in various situations
- Sporty, nimble handling due to the lightweight aluminium twin-tube frame
- 1,043 cc In-line-four which pulls strongly throughout the entire rev range
- Adjustable windscreen
- Functional and robust bodywork offers high wind protection
- Long range thanks to a 21.5 L fuel tank
- KTRC (Kawasaki TRaction Control)
- 3 modes cover a wide range of conditions
- Power Mode selection
- 2 modes: Full Power + Low Power (about 75% of Full)
- Latest-spec ABS standard
- Robust rear frame designed for heavy payload
- Gears selected for a wide range of riding situations
- 17” wheels: ideal for sport and tour riding
- Numerous genuine accessories


Although quite how a 21.5 litre tank is classed as long range beats me ?
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Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,676
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:28
Despite my piss taking of BMW, they will still sell, and sell well. Largely due to the loyalty that owners have for the Boxer motor, and due to the quality of the dealer network. Sure - they have some crap ones (my local one in Wolvo for instance), but they have some great ones (Pidcocks for instance) who people visit from miles around. Says a lot when people have multiple failures on a bike, but still go back to buy from the marque due to the response from a good dealer.
Triumph - take note.
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TR
Reading, Berkshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,335
Speed Triple 1050


icon16 Nov 2011 13:30
I think the assumption has been made here that with items such as ABS, cruise control and on board computer being fitted as standard, the the Tiger Explorer is going to cost lots more than a base model GS1200.

However, as already pointed out, most, if not all of the components required for these systems are already fitted. The additional costs are therefore minimal for Triumph. It's also cheaper and simpler for the manufacturer to order & fit the components to all models than just some There also seems to be an assumtion that the bikes just announced by Kawasaki & Honda will be significanttly cheaper. But this will not be the case, the yen is is not competative on the forigen exchanges at the moment and has not been for several years, hence the rising cost of Japenese bikes. A direct compaison would be the Yamaha Tenere, which is around £13k! or take a look at the cost of 600cc sports bike, all of which have been around for a while but cost around £9,000! (or 1000cc sports bikes for that matter)

If Triumph have done their sums right, they could be looking to pitch the 1200 Tiger at around the same OTR cost as a base model 1200GS - which would make it very good value for money at this end of the market. Remember, Triumph will still be selling losts of after market goodies for this model - heated seat, heated grips, powered top tox, cases etc. The speculative pricing in this month Bike magazine would seem to bear this out. The expected price is approx £11,000 otr. A base model GS is £10,550 otr. If you want the "comfort pack" (Comfort Package (Heated Grips, On-board Computer with oil level warning light and LED indicators) that another £420 please sir............ohh and the ABS is another £1,000.

TR
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:39
good points in these posts 49
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TR
Reading, Berkshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,335
Speed Triple 1050


icon16 Nov 2011 13:43
Ohh and one more thing.....

Optional oil warning light.......are BMW taking the piss? No one else charges for this:angry:

TR
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:45
agreed: altho I'd pay for an O/P guage (the warning light is usually too late)
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:50
According to MCN;

Honda - £11,999 estimated and
Triumph - £11,250 estimated

So unless you are a loyal Honda fan you can count them out.
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Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom

Posts: 1,676
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 13:59
Honda pissed a lot of people off with the promo that threw £1800 worth of gear onto the VFR12. I bought mine at the start of the year and only wanted the heated grips, so it didn't nark me that much, but i spoke to one guy that had his in August with a ruck of stuff, and the promo started in September. Similar to when Triumph used to discount stock in winter.
A right kick in the nads.
The XTourer looks great, V4 motor and reasonable tank size - but is bare bones for that 12 grand. Not much chance against the Tiger.
Part of me wishes i'd hung on 12 months and gone for the Tiger, rather than do what i did - but i got an ace deal for the VFR against a Yamaha Super ten, and the deal is half the battle these days.
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 14:08
Quote:
and the deal is half the battle these days.



49
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon16 Nov 2011 14:10
And the dealer ALWAYS wins.
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ST
South,
United Kingdom

Posts: 108,943
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 14:31
like Casinos ?
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Fret
The Aquaduct?,
United Kingdom

Posts: 64,007
Tiger Explorer


icon16 Nov 2011 14:34
Yup. Not that I've actually been in a casino.
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Andy
Newbury,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,405
Sprint RS (00-01)


icon16 Nov 2011 16:23
Tigeralorange:
According to MCN;

Honda - £11,999 estimated and
Triumph - £11,250 estimated

So unless you are a loyal Honda fan you can count them out.


So now I have a problem then, cdecisions decisions 43

and then of course I like the Tenere too. Think its going to be a case of who I cann screw the best deal out of 04


Cantbearsed:
Honda pissed a lot of people off with the promo that threw £1800 worth of gear onto the VFR12. I bought mine at the start of the year and only wanted the heated grips, so it didn't nark me that much, but i spoke to one guy that had his in August with a ruck of stuff, and the promo started in September. Similar to when Triumph used to discount stock in winter. A right kick in the nads.


Can't see why you should be so royally pissed off. At the time you bought yours no other deals/offers were on the table whereas later on in the year they were.

Its like saying I want to buy stuff in the summer but I don't want to pay more for it than I would if I waited until the January sales ?
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Cat Funt
Fuck off Bignose,
United Kingdom

Posts: 19,587
Tiger Explorer


icon16 Nov 2011 17:15
I've been told the Tiger will be around £11.5k. They doubt they will be able to budge on the price of the bike but will try to do something with the cost of accessories.

Accessories should be a similar price to those for the 800.
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Tigeralorange
Warwickshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 7,505
Enthusiast


icon16 Nov 2011 21:50
They're like buses these big adventure type bikes.

Initially you only had the BMW and then along came three more;

Yamaha Tenere
Honda Crosstourer and
Triumph Explorer.

All nice bikes. :lol:

I've left out the Ducati Multistrada as I reckon it's more of a Tiger 1050 on steroids.

And seeing one in the metal - if you think Tiger 1050 luggage is small! :lol:
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