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NextRSSPreviousTech Forums > Problem Solving > Fuel Tank Blistering/Warping - A Straw Poll
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon27 Mar 2013 16:21
alx:
How do you mistreat a fuel tank?


fill it with diesel 2020030303030303
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Kawpattie2012
California,
USA

Posts: 2
Daytona T595


icon02 Apr 2013 06:18
My '98 T595 gas tank has warped so badly that I had to "resurface" the area under the fuel pump plate. It was warped to the point that it leaked fuel! The warping has also made it impossible to mount the front gas tank cover, without filing the holes a bit to compensate. I live on the west coast of the USA, and my poor Triumph has been on a steady diet of the ethanol crap, almost since new.
Gus Von Gee:
Prompted by last weeks article in MCN concerning ethanol in fuel I'd like to guage the extent of the problem affecting Triumph fuel tanks and any issues regarding the fuel delivery systems.

My 97 model T595 has warping along the lower edge of the fuel tank and patches of small blisters. The fuel tank was replaced in 2000 after an accident and no special precautions were taken, ie draining the system over the winter. Up till this year the finish was flawless.

Ultimately I'd like to establish for definite whether ethanol in fuel is the culprit or whether another problem such as a manufacturing flaw, for instance, may be to blame.

My concern is that at more than £500 a pop, if the problem worsens then an economic repair would not be possible and the ultimate future of the T5 would be bleak.

Please spread the word round the forum, the more replies the better.

Thank you all in advance. Gus

PS Keep the frivolities for other forums, ta! :smile:
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nickwiz
-,
United Kingdom

Posts: 10,723
Thruxton (04-08)


icon02 Apr 2013 10:03
Kawpattie2012:
my poor Triumph has been on a steady diet of the ethanol crap, almost since new


Theres the problem.

I expect newer bikes will have ethanol proof tanks but what you are are all suffering is the same problem classic bike owners have been suffering now since Ethanol was introduced.
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Alfie Noakes
Local,
United Kingdom

Posts: 871
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon15 Apr 2013 10:44
Kawpattie2012:
The warping has also made it impossible to mount the front gas tank cover, without filing the holes a bit to compensate.


Mine has finally secumbed to this problem. Had the tank off over winter to do some servicing, put it back on a couple of weeks ago and noticed the front cover no longer fits - I can get the top three screws in but the bottom side screws are out of alignment.

Also can't fit the tank into the front mounting holes anymore. Will probably have to start drilling new holes for the bolts to go through the mounts.

Anyone know of replacement metal tanks for these, I'd gladly buy one to avoid all this grief :beatup:.
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Homertrix
Chilly Chilterns,
United Kingdom

Site Moderator
Premier Member
Tiger Sport


icon16 Apr 2013 14:55
Empty the tank and put it in a warm room for a few weeks. It will (eventually) dry out and come back to near normal size. Mine did, but mine was a bulge rather than a wholesale expansion.

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboar...

So far, no reoccurrence.
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Alfie Noakes
Local,
United Kingdom

Posts: 871
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon19 Apr 2013 08:09
Homertrix:
Empty the tank and put it in a warm room for a few weeks. It will (eventually) dry out and come back to near normal size. Mine did, but mine was a bulge rather than a wholesale expansion.

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboar...

So far, no reoccurrence.


Cheers will try this :thumbup:

Its currently been drained and stripped - Trouble is I've noticed the yellow 'lining' inside has bubbled and burst around the area where the drain tubes exit, so that you can see the white plastic beneath. I'm now wondering if this is a problem or can be simply repaired.
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alx
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 2,361
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon19 Apr 2013 16:59
Homertrix:
Empty the tank and put it in a warm room for a few weeks.


But don't put it near an open flame, gas heater or gas hot water system.

Otherwise it may dry out rather quicker than planned.
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 13,810
Enthusiast


icon19 Apr 2013 19:20
Alfie Noakes:
Homertrix:
Empty the tank and put it in a warm room for a few weeks. It will (eventually) dry out and come back to near normal size. Mine did, but mine was a bulge rather than a wholesale expansion.

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboar...

So far, no reoccurrence.


Cheers will try this :thumbup:

Its currently been drained and stripped - Trouble is I've noticed the yellow 'lining' inside has bubbled and burst around the area where the drain tubes exit, so that you can see the white plastic beneath. I'm now wondering if this is a problem or can be simply repaired.


sorry late reading this posting ,

IF the tank can be drained and dried completely , can you not use a 2 part epoxy sealant ? , this will stop ethanol touching the f/glass/plastic , I used http://www.shop4glue.com/fuel-tank-seale... although it says metal tanks , it should work on a rough plastic

alan
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Tank
Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 48
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon22 Apr 2013 20:05
I sent triumph a letter about my tank, they denied that it is ethanol causing it and blamed possibly other additives.
I will scan the letter sometime this weekand post it on here. They just sticking their heads in the sand and hoping we will go away.
Really not happy and I for one will not buy a triumph again. Had over the years
2No Daytona 1200
1no Daytona 900
1No Sprint
2No Speed triple with 955i
1No T509
will have no more:angry:
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 13,810
Enthusiast


icon22 Apr 2013 21:18
they will deny it ! there is a big law suit going on in America regarding ducati tanks , possably made at the same factory? , if that goes thru , all tanks made for a lot of companies , using the same composite will fall under the same ruleing , triumph know this , so are denying it to singular customers , in the hope that they do not combine and bring a legal action
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Terry Colley
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 1,129
Tiger (07->)


icon22 Apr 2013 23:14
old f!$%er from up north:
............possibly made at the same factory?


I believe Triumph polymer tanks were made by Acerbis in Italy, well known for their off-road equipment and accessories.
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Sir Alan of Ingol
sespit of the north,
United Kingdom

Posts: 13,810
Enthusiast


icon22 Apr 2013 23:26
yes that might be correct I have just bought a 24l "enduro" tank , that was designed by them to go on one of my bikes , Acerbis no longer make this and have handed the rights over to a british company , they have assured me that the composite is different than used 10/20 yrs ago http://www.apophisparts.co.uk/mt-long-ra...
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Bassy
Bedfordshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 211
Enthusiast


icon26 Apr 2013 23:02
Bassy's Profile
Quote Post in Reply
My Dads thinking


Triumph Ethanol damaged Plastic Fuel tank kill or cure

Blistering of painted surfaces on Triumph plastic petrol tank, I have recently come across this and I did a little research and I have a theory of how this happens, the reaction appears to be down to the resent addition of ethanol to petrol, ethanol has the ability to mix with petrol but it also has the ability to mix with water and given the right set of circumstances e.g. fuelling up on wet days, pressure washing and many more time were water can get into the fuel. I am not an expert, just a grumpy old man who has seen a lot in is long-life, so now I will tell you what I think is happening, when the fuel is standing for long periods such has winter layups the ethanol/petrol mix may breakdown the ethanol being the lighter of to two evaporates and finds its way through the plastic, but it carries with it some of the water that has mixed with it, at this point the ethanol continues to evaporate through the paint that covers the tank but the water dose not evaporate has fast and gets stuck under the paint and forms water blisters, this would have happened at the earlier stage has it passed through the plastic of the tank but the water would drop back into the fuel in the tank and result in bad running of the engine, also the octane of the fuel will have been lowered which will affect the running of the engine.
Now we move on what can you do to prevent/rectify this. If you think this has happened to your tank, you must dispose of the fuel that is left in the tank and check for water in fuel lines clean if necessary swill with fresh fuel treats the tank with one of the proprietary tank sealers.
Has for the blistering of the tank paint if you can live with the tank looking like a toads back just ride your bike and enjoy, if not strip the tank and re-spray, not that easy with plastic tanks some chemicals will dissolve the plastic heat can melt it, found the only way was heat, the method I used worked but it takes time what you will need is a domestic hairdryer (the wife’s I have no use for one in normal circumstances) an electric heat-gun and some plastic strips to use has scrapers I used several 30cm plastic rulers for this,(pinched from my granddaughters school bag.
Method: odiously dismantle the tank, switch on the hairdryer normal heat setting and, Position so that it blows into the inside of the tank, this will be left in this position(switched On) throughout the operation, leave it for half hour to heat the tank toughly before using the heat-gun, the theory is if the plastic tank is hot before hating the paint to soften it will need less direct heat, using the heat-gun for a short-time in a small area if you scratch this area with a pieces of plastic or like me a finger nail this will give you a guide to when the paint is softened sufficiently to be removed with the plastic strips, continue like this until all the paint is removed(it took me around 3 hours) and then use fine wet and dry to finish remember not to rub to vigorously on corners and edges.
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alx
Sydney,
Australia

Posts: 2,361
Daytona 955i (99-01)


icon26 Apr 2013 23:26
Just be very very sure that there are no fumes left in the tank (or nearby) before switching on an arcing hair dryer.

Otherwise you'll have dried the tank and the potting shed in a split second.
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Graham Lumley
Cambridgeshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 27
Daytona 955i (02)


icon14 May 2013 22:30
My DSSA Daytona has developed 3 x 5 pence piece sized blisters on the tank after this winter, I don't know if this particularly cold damp winter has had more of an effect than previous winters as it's been fine for the last 9 and the bikes now 10.

From all I read its got to be down to the ethanol issue as no other part of the bike is effected bar the fuel tank.

I wonder if there is any chance of these disappearing during the summer.

If not I might just have to take some comfort in the fact that the Ducati tank problems seem much more pronounced.
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Tank
Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 48
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon08 Sep 2013 10:48
Not using ma bikes already had 2 knackered tanks - both ma bikes have plastic tanks - due to ethanol.
So have filled my tank with AVGAS 100LL (aviation fuel 100 octane) which is ethanol free.
Have a syphon tube so can drain the tank down when required.

Question - Does all uk fuel now have 5% to 10% ethanol, done some web searches but nothing definative out there :frown:
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andreas
east mids,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,136
Enthusiast


icon08 Sep 2013 15:23
I believe, but do not know definitely, that the higher octane rating petrol does not (at least in the Midlands) contain any ethanol - so that is what I have been using for some time now. I have four 'plastic' tank bikes - no problems whatsoever.
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Tank
Wales,
United Kingdom

Posts: 48
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)


icon08 Sep 2013 16:41
Why is it so hard to find out what is used in the petrol, I have asked my local stations and none can advise
In America they have to state on the petrol pumps whether the fuel is E0, E5, E10 etc where this denotes the ethanol content, I think this is also a requirement in France
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon09 Sep 2013 16:24
alx:
How do you mistreat a fuel tank?


fill it with #2 fuel oil :lol::lol:


4 modern trumpets for me...3 warped tanks.
00 tona :thumbdown: warp replaced under warranty(faulty check valve was the excuse),replacement tank warped in 2 years
02 tona :thumbdown: warped so bad it needs longer bolts and shims to be used
03 tona :thumbdown:
06 sprint:thumbup: still perfect
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Gary Gere
san jose california,
USA

Posts: 1
Street Triple


icon17 Sep 2013 03:29
1999 Speed Triple with 3,600 original miles - had to replace gas tank
due to bulging/leaking at bottom front of tank - Triumph US rep told
me the bike was out of warranty and to buy a new tank, which I did
and it cost me $1400.00. I have reported them to the NTSB.
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jaguartvr
Englefield Green,
United Kingdom

Posts: 4,435
Enthusiast


icon17 Sep 2013 07:46
I wonder if the warping and blistering are two different issues.
I have a collection of plastic fuel cans, none of them have ever blistered and have fuel left in them for months. However any that have been left in the sun after filling the lawnmower have expanded due to the fuel and vapour expanding and even when the cap has been released they never go back to their original shape. Could expanding fuel and vapour along with a blocked air breather be part of the problem?
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 9,350
Sprint ST (05->)


icon17 Sep 2013 09:08
My '06 model year ST now has about 6 blisters on the top of the tank. Just noticed them a few weeks ago after the hot summer. :sad:

But it is used every day, no long periods of standing around...
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jaguartvr
Englefield Green,
United Kingdom

Posts: 4,435
Enthusiast


icon17 Sep 2013 10:39
Are the blisters paint coming off or the tank itself?
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 9,350
Sprint ST (05->)


icon17 Sep 2013 10:51
No, the paint is still good. The blisters appear as if they are coming from deeper in the plastic.
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andreas
east mids,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,136
Enthusiast


icon17 Sep 2013 20:00
Weird! Somehow I don't think it's down to ethanol content - but I don't know.
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sprintster1
aberdeenshire,
United Kingdom

Posts: 620
Sprint RS (02-05)


icon18 Sep 2013 20:34
2000 Sprint ST with 65k on it.Ridden daily for about 9 months of the year then garaged for the rest.I hadn't thought about it being caused by ethanol but the tank is a tight fit to get back on.I had to change the rubbers to get the front bolt back in and the back of the tank is rubbing away against the frame.:sad:
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 9,350
Sprint ST (05->)


icon18 Sep 2013 22:16
Andreas, I have only ever used Shell V-Power in my bike.

Thinking back to the last service, I also had to slacken off the rear tank mount to get it to fit :sad:
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southernspeed
Medway, Kent.,
United Kingdom

Posts: 107
Enthusiast


icon18 Sep 2013 22:31
'98 Daytona, blistering and hard to get the front cover on, '99 Speed Triple hard to get front cover on and has expanded in a forward motion! 2001 Sprint, no blistering but almost impossible to fit now due to expanding!
Crap ain't it!
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andreas
east mids,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,136
Enthusiast


icon19 Sep 2013 08:19
Chris S:
Andreas, I have only ever used Shell V-Power in my bike.

Thinking back to the last service, I also had to slacken off the rear tank mount to get it to fit :sad:



Very strange, in that some bikes appear affected, and others not at all . . . . dunno really. I wonder if it's age or a specific batch related?
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 9,350
Sprint ST (05->)


icon19 Sep 2013 12:56
With the 1050's of course, we are lucky that they now make metal tanks, and there are plenty on ebay from breakers.

Not so lucky for the older models though...:sad:
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andreas
east mids,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,136
Enthusiast


icon19 Sep 2013 16:19
Chris S:
With the 1050's of course, we are lucky that they now make metal tanks, and there are plenty on ebay from breakers.

Not so lucky for the older models though...:sad:




I've had (another) quick check of my '99 Dayto today - absolutely fine. 'Tis a mystery. Wonder if garaged inside v kept outside has anything to do with it, in terms of UV exposure?
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j p
ma,,
USA

Adventurer (99-01)


icon24 Sep 2013 17:44
]



I've had (another) quick check of my '99 Dayto today - absolutely fine. 'Tis a mystery.


Take it off and try to put it back on:tongueout: my 03 looked perfect... then I took it off and could not get it back on without extra spacers and a longer bolt up front:beatup:
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andreas
east mids,
United Kingdom

Posts: 18,136
Enthusiast


icon24 Sep 2013 20:05
j p:
]



I've had (another) quick check of my '99 Dayto today - absolutely fine. 'Tis a mystery.


Take it off and try to put it back on:tongueout: my 03 looked perfect... then I took it off and could not get it back on without extra spacers and a longer bolt up front:beatup:



Didn't remove the tank, but I took the front cover off and rocked the tank on its rubber mounts - moves quite freely. I'm happy with it . . :thumbup:
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