I don't know art but I know what I like....beats a cow sawn in half, a pile of bricks, a fridge light on cos the doors left open or a fukin skip left with some lights around it
Triplejak: I don't know art but I know what I like....beats a cow sawn in half, a pile of bricks, a fridge light on cos the doors left open or a fukin skip left with some lights around it
That sounds like to corner of ever street in liverpool
Mal: Funnily enough I was going to make a similar comment ....
about Portsmouth
youd be wrong in that case
there's no piles of bricks, they would have been "Gently placed" through several house windows and not left in a pile,
they dont have lights in the fridge (most dont know what a fridge is, + the doors are never opened because they dont have anything to put in it. trampaign tastes better room temp apparently
and no skips left laying around with lights on it because the lights were nicked and "skips" are more commonly known as "home extensions"
TBH I'm not sure what the constant reminding of how we all owe a debt of gratitude to the armed forces really achieves. People generally choose to sign-up: it's something they want to do as we have no more conscripts.
That is not to say that the work done by our troops of all descriptions shouldn't be respected and acknowledged but conversely I was very friendly with some guys (one of which was an ex-para who had seen active service) and they never mentioned it, never wanted to talk about it, never felt the need to remind people of it. It had nothing to do with not wanting to re-live it : they just didn't feel the need to constantly remind people of it.
Red In many ways you're right of course, almost everyone I know is ex forces or active and there are three main reasons people join up - family tradition, there's F all else to do for a job or they want to get to play with guns and blow s!$% up. I've honestly never heard heard someone say I joined up to protect queen and country - in fact I was naive enough when I did my pre-RCB (what teenagers do to try and get the ok to start officer training) at 16 to say something of the sort thinking it would be what they wanted to hear and was actually laughed at (most of the others on that course cited cheap naffi beer and world travel as their reasons) BUT the reason we have days like today and remembrance day is two fold - one is to remember those who gave when there was no choice but to me the more important thing is the now - these people do want to sign up and it is their choice but they also expect the government to keep to their end of the bargain and give them equipment that works, accommodation that is fit to live in and help after they come back from war - and if nothing else the constant reminders act as a pressure on the government of the day to in some way stick to that bargain. In any other field there would be laws insisting that the recruiter gave full disclosure and actively tried to discourage you from joining - they would take potential recruits to Selly Oak, let them meet the homeless vets, explain that more Falklands soldiers killed themselves since the war than died in it, remind them that they'll get bugger all help with PTSD (more so now but still inadequate) and in fact if they admit to it their career will nose dive etc etc etc So whilst the picture is naff the sentiment and the reminders can't hurt
I volunteered for it..... our armed forces deserve respect for it and whilst you enjoy your freedom you should bloody well remember it.
most people would be vegetarians if they had to kill, skin, gut and carve their own meat and not buy it in little sanitised packets at the supermarket...... freedom is not a lot different.
I volunteered for it..... our armed forces deserve respect for it and whilst you enjoy your freedom you should bloody well remember it.
most people would be vegetarians if they had to kill, skin, gut and carve their own meat and not buy it in little sanitised packets at the supermarket...... freedom is not a lot different.
This is the sort of emotionally fuelled response that I object to now being posted on here more and more regularly; I don't believe a single decent member/person here requires reminding in this fashion. Is it because you think we're not grown up enough to have grasped the enormity of these young soldiers sacrifice?
I currently have a young future son-in-law at Sandhurst so know full well the worries the above entails, apart from previous generations of my family that've made the ultimate sacrifice. Shouting about it constantly won't make it go away or improve the situation.
Sorry paul but that pic is a severe MISS REPRESENTATION !!!
i Dont see the kettle, the TV with Sky satellite channels, the Games Console, pictures on the wall, the Bird cage With a pet Bird, there is also no mention of the free to use pool tables & no mention of the food in which 5 different dishes to choose from HAVE to be offered.
ok .... so squaddies get it a little easier with the naafi !!!!
my cousin is regularly out in helmand and i have just gone beyond my re-call date having served but luckily never in combat. I have a lot of good muckas who are currently on active service and every time there is an announcement that another soldier has died it grabs me. Not just because it could be one of my friends or relatives but because it is someones friend or relative, just like me.
that picture on the right would be a nice place to stay if you didn't want freedom but some people don't even get that. A friend of mine, Nabaz is from kurdistan and was shot four times saw most of his family and friends killed before being left for dead by the iraqi's. He couldn't fight back unarmed.
the pictures served as another way to portray the original post for the vegetarians of society who don't want to contemplate the blood that has been spilled in the name of "freedom" whilst they sit in their paradise.
They don't just fight for our freedom..... they also fight for those who can't fight for themselves.
I volunteered for it..... our armed forces deserve respect for it and whilst you enjoy your freedom you should bloody well remember it.
Somebody has been watching A Few Good Men too much
What Obee and Scott said If you chose to sign-up sorry but you have no cause to demand respect. It was your choice, your decision and whilst I support our troops I get tired of people demanding that I constantly lay my self prostrate at their feet.
TBH I get tired of able bodied ex-servicemen bleating about how hard done by they are. Like I said, I had some good friends in HK who had seen active service and they NEVER once felt the need to remind people of it.
They obviously enjoyed their time, took the rough with the smooth, had some good times and some hard times and learnt new skills but not once did they try the tired, clichéd Jack Nicholson speech.
have you been sat all day waiting for me to re-post RM
I was never hard done by and if it came to it and i was needed i would gladly volunteer. I do not demand respect for myself but for the people who are willing to do a damned hard job and do it well.
The armed forces taught me a great deal about what an individual can achieve and that a whole gang of aforementioned individuals can literally move mountains.
as an art critic i would say the picture, atrocious as it may seem to some, depicts a chapter in our history where the fairytale of blissful freedom is propped up on the back of a terrible conflict in a sea of blood. Maybe a depiction of what people wear a poppy for?
who knows ....... I kinda like it though makes me feel proud.
I volunteered for it..... our armed forces deserve respect for it and whilst you enjoy your freedom you should bloody well remember it.
Somebody has been watching A Few Good Men too much
What Obee and Scott said If you chose to sign-up sorry but you have no cause to demand respect. It was your choice, your decision and whilst I support our troops I get tired of people demanding that I constantly lay my self prostrate at their feet.
TBH I get tired of able bodied ex-servicemen bleating about how hard done by they are. Like I said, I had some good friends in HK who had seen active service and they NEVER once felt the need to remind people of it.
They obviously enjoyed their time, took the rough with the smooth, had some good times and some hard times and learnt new skills but not once did they try the tired, clichéd Jack Nicholson speech.
No, 'they' wouldn't RM
But as was mentioned by Trident, it is behoven of the Govt to stick to their end of the bargain - which they often don't - yet despite this, those same service personnel are often involved in conflicts for which they might never have signed up and yet you're tired of reading it.
Then, do take that weary old attitude, and do one.
For your ability to write like that, over the years many men and women gave and continue to give their lives.
Just because Vets don't brag or complain, doesn't make it morally or socially acceptable for us not to publicly acknowledge what how we benefit because they 'chose to do it'.
Did you support Armed Forces Day? Do you contribute to help inflate the woefully small financial aid that injured and 'affected' service personnel get from the State? If yes to any or all of the above, then good.
if not, perhaps you ought to understand the conditions behind your sentiment of 'they made that choice'
And either way, the fact that we as a country 'expect' for often so little in return and support, so much, still makes it a stain upon this country.
Quote: yet despite this, those same service personnel are often involved in conflicts for which they might never have signed up and yet you're tired of reading it.
So you expect people to sign-up but not to have to see active service if they don't agree with it.....blimey, a "pick 'n' choose army": that's a novel idea.
It's simple...you sign-up, you get posted...don't bleat about it. If you don't like the idea of having to fight in a war or getting posted somewhere you don't approve of, don't sign-up.
I think we are all able to support our troops without the need for others to constantly demand that we throw ourselves at their feet. Those that constantly ram it down our throats do the armed forces as dis-service.
Quote: yet despite this, those same service personnel are often involved in conflicts for which they might never have signed up and yet you're tired of reading it.
So you expect people to sign-up but not to have to see active service if they don't agree with it.....blimey, a "pick 'n' choose army": that's a novel idea.
It's simple...you sign-up, you get posted...don't bleat about it. If you don't like the idea of having to fight in a war or getting posted somewhere you don't approve of, don't sign-up.
I think we are all able to support our troops without the need for others to constantly demand that we throw ourselves at their feet. Those that constantly ram it down our throats do the armed forces as dis-service.
A) I didn't say that. - I think 'most' people would agree, that we are all heartily sick of Afghanistan and the political war that always has been
B) Most service personnel are accepting of active service (I was). if that is what comes along, you take the rough with the smooth. And most service personnel don't talk about it, especially whilst they are serving. - But they have every right for us all (Govt and people) to support them and give them the budget and equipment to 'do' their tours well equipped and well paid - which is sadly not the case
C) I do my fellow current and ex-service people a 'service' by promoting, once a month at a meeting and every other day during the month, a 'learn to network' event and website - enabling them to better secure work once they leave.
Do you contribute?
if people, including Obee are fed up of this, then perhaps you ought to do more to ensure service personnel can do their choice of role as well paid as they SHOULD be and as equipped as we would hope they need be
I volunteered for it..... our armed forces deserve respect for it and whilst you enjoy your freedom you should bloody well remember it.
most people would be vegetarians if they had to kill, skin, gut and carve their own meat and not buy it in little sanitised packets at the supermarket...... freedom is not a lot different.
This is the sort of emotionally fuelled response that I object to now being posted on here more and more regularly; I don't believe a single decent member/person here requires reminding in this fashion. Is it because you think we're not grown up enough to have grasped the enormity of these young soldiers sacrifice?
I currently have a young future son-in-law at Sandhurst so know full well the worries the above entails, apart from previous generations of my family that've made the ultimate sacrifice. Shouting about it constantly won't make it go away or improve the situation.
Richard, so you honestly think every day folk even begin to grasp what service / conflict life is like, unless they are reminded?
How else CAN service people be helped if others don't portray the Govt's failings towards them???
If so, you are at odds with what statistics from surveys suggest.
Unless you have been in a war zone for instance, carrying full combat kit, in 40C temperatures, to come back to almost squalid conditions and knowing your kit is being supplemented (less nowadays, thank goodness than even two years ago), I'd be feeling that folk back home should/ would want to know about it.
Armed Forces day and the supplemental images that keep Afghanistan in people's minds can only be a positive thing. sorry RM, but you'd no more think about it ever again, if you didn't read or see how poorly we support our troops - in contrast to often berated US allies especially.
A tour of Afghanistan for some troops is every two years for crying out loud!
i.e. are we supposed to sweep in under the table that we are happy service people made a lifestyle choice that we benefit from, but aren't prepared for the comparisons that show up when prisoners get better treatment than they do?
Perhaps we need a pole I for one joined the raf so as to make sure I didn't go to the front line as such, the reason I left was because the promises made to me we're bollox and it wasn't worth the committment for another 8 yrs
I`ll throw my hat in here on the side of Obee and RM.....
(not that they need it)
But first things first,anyone taking exception to what i think, read it first and just don`t sound bite the bits that you are offended by;
Firstly, having read what you have all posted, the "pro army" (for want of a better word)lads have all,without exception miss understood the (for the want of a better word) "anti Forces"lads have said.
I`ve not read any Anti army stuff on here, I have noted that Rm`s and Obees feelings are that "some" ex forces on here seem to mention the fact far too much,and for no apparent reason, except to remind all us soft civvies how hard they are(were).
that is a bit tiresome
as for supporting our troops?(RAF and Navy too but I don`t seem to hear much from them) wonder why?.Anyway, as for supporting current, and remembering ex services, you`ll get nothing but support from the likes of myself AND Obee/RM.However, as a well balanced man of the world,with a grasp of history and current affairs i don`t need to be reminded how rough a brothel in Aden was in 1990.
As for what i`ve done to contribute,well part of wants to say mind yer own business.However every armed forces person whoever stood infront of me at all the bike shops i`ve worked have gotten discount and a well done from me. and for the last 3 years i`ve enjoyed looking after old lads who fought for me 35 years before i was born, now their stories,are worth listening to......a few have asked me why I do this "womens job" and i tell them "by way of thanks".......
oh, and if i was called up i would go without complaint........
Oh yeah,The picture is terrible,i understand the sentiment but it`s a teenage goths poem made into a picture.....sorry....
Far too much "you must adore me/adore our troops" IMHO and emotive tosh about how our poor boys must endure hardship. It's the armed forces not the girl guides: get over it.
Quote: yet despite this, those same service personnel are often involved in conflicts for which they might never have signed up and yet you're tired of reading it.
So you expect people to sign-up but not to have to see active service if they don't agree with it.....blimey, a "pick 'n' choose army": that's a novel idea.
It's simple...you sign-up, you get posted...don't bleat about it. If you don't like the idea of having to fight in a war or getting posted somewhere you don't approve of, don't sign-up.
I think we are all able to support our troops without the need for others to constantly demand that we throw ourselves at their feet. Those that constantly ram it down our throats do the armed forces as dis-service.
if no-one signs up then guess what?????
conscription.
then who gets to choose????
in banging my head off the keyboard once more i try to get my point across. as a person who understands some of the s!$% they have to go through to provide a safe and comfortable life for people who don't like it "rammed down their throats" I don't mind gobbing off about how much of a good job they do with not enough support or respect. As a civillian i fight for squaddies to get the same if not better treatment than they do because they are unable to fight for it themselves. What would happen to a squaddy if he went on strike due to pay and conditions???? where is his union to back him up when he is hard done to????? f!$%ing bin men going on strike (example)..... if they don't like their pay or pension they have the ability to walk away from their job...... armed forces personnel don't because they get jailed for dessertion.
they don't gob off about it but someone has to remind everyone of how hard earned their "free" lifestyles are.
bear in mind the troops are now under equipped because the government took away most of the forces stockpile to make it a more efficient business.....
some suited paper pushing twat saw a warehouse full of equipment that was only needed during conflict and thought .... i know ... if we sell these two hundred landrover gearboxes and just keep three we can order a new one when one breaks...... and the same went for weapons, equipment and certain aspects of training. Then a war comes along and five gearboxes get broken at once...... three get repaired, two go off the road until more gearboxes can be ordered and the chain of supply is f!$%ed......... All so the government can pull funds and resources and pump them into overcrowded prisons and healthcare for f!$%ing smack heads who just burden the system more.
people who "don't want it rammed down their throats" should look away instead of gobbing off about the obscenity of it all putting them off their afternoon tea..... otherwise they should be dragged by their hair, kicking and screaming and see first hand what the "volunteers" go through which in turn saves them and their families from conscription.
I say bring back national service and teach the kids some respect because most of the parents don't ..... they are too busy spunking their dole and child benifit up the wall in the pub.
two years of non active service (13-15)whilst the kids do their gcse's will instill respect, discipline and understanding of what a days work is instead of allowing them to hang around in feral packs on street corners.
Red Monkey: Far too much "you must adore me/adore our troops" IMHO and emotive tosh about how our poor boys must endure hardship. It's the armed forces not the girl guides: get over it.
i have more respect for the girl guides than for the people who "don't want to hear about it"
Pwalo: people who "don't want it rammed down their throats" should look away instead of gobbing off about the obscenity of it all putting them off their afternoon tea..... otherwise they should be dragged by their hair, kicking and screaming and see first hand what the "volunteers" go through which in turn saves them and their families from conscription.
Nobody has saved anybody from conscription...that is utter nonsense.
Quote: i have more respect for the girl guides than for the people who "don't want to hear about it"
I have more respect for true heroes not those who seek glory through association.
Also, I believe that the true heroes do not go around reminding everybody of their deeds......those that seek to bask in the reflected glory of the real heroes are just pitiful attention seekers.
People getting on their soap boxes demanding constant adoration of the forces really are doing them a dis-service. The fact that some persist in constantly demanding public adoration and recognition rather than quiet but genuine respect is typical of the FaceBook generation. Perhaps they are using it as a platform to draw attention to themselves as much as those they purport to represent
Pwalo: people who "don't want it rammed down their throats" should look away instead of gobbing off about the obscenity of it all putting them off their afternoon tea..... otherwise they should be dragged by their hair, kicking and screaming and see first hand what the "volunteers" go through which in turn saves them and their families from conscription.
Nobody has saved anybody from conscription...that is utter nonsense.
Quote: i have more respect for the girl guides than for the people who "don't want to hear about it"
I have more respect for true heroes not those who seek glory through association.
Also, I believe that the true heroes do not go around reminding everybody of their deeds......those that seek to bask in the reflected glory of the real heroes are just pitiful attention seekers.
People getting on their soap boxes demanding constant adoration of the forces really are doing them a dis-service. The fact that some persist in constantly demanding public adoration and recognition rather than quiet but genuine respect is typical of the FaceBook generation. Perhaps they are using it as a platform to draw attention to themselves as much as those they purport to represent
So by posting a picture that sums it up for me I am drawing attention to myself? I didn't and never have demanded public adoration or recognition, I just liked the picture and what it represented.
Not many soldiers, serving or ex will talk of their daring do's, we are a nation who generally keep quiet about things unless in certain company ie those we served with. Its not compulsory to comment, you could just not click the link again and let it lie. I dare you to NOT respond..........let it lie, let those of us who want to remember, remember......I did two weeks ago, and will again next weekend, for me some of this stuff is very real.
I have no issue with you posting the pic - if it means something to you then fair enough
However, you're missing the point. We don't all need to be constantly reminded, or to have people like Pwalo demand that we make public displays of gratitude, to be thankful and respectful of the work that all the armed forces do.
Lets face it its not just wars the forces do, how about building a bridge when floods wash one away, working as firemen when they go on strike, I have worked in Durham prison when the warders went on strike, f!$%, the military have even had to be bin men.........no one tells you that when you sign on.
Just so happens we are in a s!$%ty conflict at the moment, to which those not in the loop only have half the facts about what goes on both over there and back here with the wounded.
Some of the stuff my serving mates tell me is scary in the extreme, the PTSD side of things is horrendous, for example 6 months from joining young lads are watching their best mates die in mud filled ditches, no training in the world can prepare someone for the real horrors of war.
They deserve our respect, and that is what they will get from me, as do those who went before me get.
This is my last post on this thread, because tbh I have had enough of the antagonistic/inflammatory rantings of some on here
TJ: This is my last post on this thread, because tbh I have had enough of the antagonistic/inflammatory rantings of some on here
Well TBH that just about sums it up As I have said, I respect the work done by all the forces and for the sacrifices they make whether in peace or war. However, I object to being told by some that I must make public displays of gratitude and of I don't it is somehow disrespectful.
I also fail to see why some (ex)forces people are moaning so much about doing the job they voluntarily signed-up to do. If you sign-up to do a job in the forces don't moan if you get sent to the front line. Along the way you will have travelled, many will have gained new skills and even qualifications but I am supposed to throw myself at their feet? Thanks but I'll save my gratitude for the real ,and often humble heroes who do not publicly seek recognition
I once read about someone that signed up for the financial frontline in Hong Kong....they had a terrible time and have been harping on about it ever since!
Yeah but they didn't demand public sympathy and support or keep telling people that their very existence was based on the work they and their predecessors had done
That is unfair John - read what I said. It is certain people on here that chose to remind us when I don't believe we need to be. It is also the manner in which they go about it that I find unnecessary, especially that horrible picture. Frankly, it's patronising in the extreme and does not help.
"Richard, so you honestly think every day folk even begin to grasp what service / conflict life is like, unless they are reminded?"
Of course they don't John - so yes, they should be reminded but in a suitably respectful way.
"How else CAN service people be helped if others don't portray the Govt's failings towards them???"
I agree this should be brought to the public's attention reguarly but posting emotive pictures on here will do little to help the general populaces perception of the situation.
Showing pictures of a young soldier on a life support machine here is preaching to the converted. I've never heard a single word of dissent towards our magnificent armed forces in the over 10 years I've been a member here.
Finally John, if you think for a single instant that I have ANYTHING but the best interests or ultimate respect for all our forces personnel then you've obviously misjudged me horribly.
PS. When at Duxford today I was only thinking what a terrible sacrifice all those bomber crews made when looking at the massive engraved glass memorial to them all. Thankfully the pervious shameful situation has been rectified with the new Bomber Command memorial.
Quote: Showing pictures of a young soldier on a life support machine here is preaching to the converted. I've never heard a single word of dissent towards our magnificent armed forces in the over 10 years I've been a member here.
I'm only moaning about what they have to do 'cause when i used to moan about it whilst "under oath" they used to lock me up!!!
currently I am serving in a workshop which, to all intents and purposes, may actually have been bombed...
there is constant nbc..... well bc, i've not got a machine to x-ray dymags and rule the world......( yet!!!) warfare between my lungs and the s!$% i work with....... the boss is a twat and doesn't pay me..... f!$%in tea breaks are spent mithering with all you gits (and solving many day to day situations too, mind).... and whenever i want i can just walk away from it and "f!$% the customer"......
they lied to me too at the careers maaan!!!!
they can't walk away from it and most of them wouldn't too as they wanted to do it (i've only just found my "wanted to do it" and it turns out i was right).
that is the only reason why this dog is barking.......
One of the 2 Welsh Guards killed by a "friendly" a day or two ago is a kid just up the road from here. He drank in the pub we are doing the sponsored bike ride for on Saturday. His name was Criag (He hasn't been named on TV yet AFAIK) Very sad, a young lad with his whole life ahead of him.
makes me feel proud.
. 
As I have said, I respect the work done by all the forces and for the sacrifices they make whether in peace or war. However, I object to being told by some that I must make public displays of gratitude and of I don't it is somehow disrespectful. 
Thanks but I'll save my gratitude for the real ,and often humble heroes who do not publicly seek recognition
