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Deadloud
Ubi draconi vivant,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:13
.. didn't they used to call it 'devaluation' ??
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onlineKrautophile
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:16
..did they? I do not know...
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Suffolk Punch...
You are gay...,
Uruguay

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icon09 Feb 2012 13:19
Excellent reply Irv, very informative....:lol:
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Anthony Lovell
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:27
Its a bit more complicated, more like borrowing from yourself, like I said its complicated
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A Bastard
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:29
How complicated? 40
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Suffolk Punch...
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:32
Ooh very I reckon AB, as complicated as complicated can be...:tongueout:
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onlineKrautophile
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:33
Really SP, as complicated as reading a book of gold?
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Suffolk Punch...
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Uruguay

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icon09 Feb 2012 13:34
I wouldn`t know Irv, never got to page 9....:frown::thumbdown:
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onlineKrautophile
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:35
...you see that's where you went wrong! I heard it starts to get interesting then...
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G-San
Blurredhorizonville,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:35
Ahh... QE, eh? Lovely stuff.

Great for comforting the criminal banking fraternity, who like nothing more than to suckle on its teet while f!$%ing the rest of us up our fiscal fundaments: http://maxkeiser.com/2011/12/29/kr229-ja...

But for the definitive explanation, this is pretty good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS...
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Stu
NW - UK,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:45
Cost more in printer ink and paper!

http://amazingdata.com/mediadata12/Image...

The person running this country got a nice economics degree from the UK.

But look how happy they were!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vngtpXeEEg0/TS...

Then they realised...

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Ev...

And then you can kiss goodbye to a Sunday lunch out.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NUMcaQB3sfs/SK...
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:49
Kin'll, 10 trillion for roast beef.30
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Suffolk Punch...
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:50
It`d have to be good....40
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Deadloud
Ubi draconi vivant,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:50
:lol::lol: Thanks lads ... I'm absolutely no wiser :lol::lol:
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A Bastard
Droitwich,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:51
Dan - It's have to be more than good! 3029

Make a good pub conversation back in the UK though - what's the most expensive dinner you've ever had! :lol:
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Who The F
I 8 smartarses,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:52
Anthony Lovell:
Its a bit more complicated, more like borrowing from yourself, like I said its complicated


And then defaulting on the loan :lol::lol::blush::beatup:
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onlineKrautophile
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:56
A bit like Italy in the late 80's then. They were going to chop 3 000's of their currency. They started to call it the Lira pesante or heavy Lira...
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A Bastard
Droitwich,
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icon09 Feb 2012 13:57
I remember that Irv. Was a bugget trying to work out the cost your holidays. One decimal point in the wrong place and it all went tits up! 29
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Stu
NW - UK,
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icon09 Feb 2012 14:00
Deadloud:
:lol::lol: Thanks lads ... I'm absolutely no wiser :lol::lol:



For every pound printed your pound in your pocket is devalued by a small fraction each time.

The problem with all this printing is that most people don't have earnings linked to inflation. So for every pound printed the TOTAL money supply is increased and the inverse is your pound in your pocket is deflated in value. Thus stuff costs more.
Hence inflation in prices and deflating value of your pounds buying power.

Problem is once it gets out of control my post above becomes a self sustaining spiral. In most cases you can't earn enough fast enough to keep up with price rises because your earning in a fixed number of pounds which are losing value all the time.
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onlineKrautophile
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icon09 Feb 2012 14:03
A Bastard:
I remember that Irv. Was a bugget trying to work out the cost your holidays. One decimal point in the wrong place and it all went tits up! 29



...trouble was going to buy something like a coffee £1000.00 ffs (remember we copied the monkeys in our signage).
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Koro
Severn Valley,
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icon09 Feb 2012 15:04
QE isn't the same as printing money though is it ( which would devalue the £ ).

I thought QE was about buying back government bonds or other instruments from the banks, thereby putting more cash in the bank's coffers, for them to use to get the country going again, except that the money just sits in their coffers not helping anyone except themselves.

But QE affects many of us by reducing pension annuity rates thereby reducing our pensions - due to the values of long dated gilts going up as the Government buys them back and consequently the yields going down which then reduces annuity rates.

But, I'm sure its more complicated than that.40
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ST
Surrey Heath,
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icon09 Feb 2012 15:10
hammer => nail interfaced 49
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nickwiz
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Thruxton (04-08)


icon09 Feb 2012 17:06
Won't devaluing the currency a bit make our exoports cheaper abroad? Haven't the Chinese kept their currency pegged artficialy low for this very reason/ Therefore is it neccassarily a bad thing?
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Who The F
I 8 smartarses,
United Kingdom

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icon09 Feb 2012 17:33
i tried quantative easing once ended up s!$%ting myself :sick:
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Barney
Jurassic Coast,
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icon09 Feb 2012 18:22
Chucking petrol on a bonfire won't help to put it out.
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G-San
Blurredhorizonville,
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icon09 Feb 2012 18:39
Koro:
QE isn't the same as printing money though is it ( which would devalue the £ ). I thought QE was about buying back government bonds or other instruments from the banks, thereby putting more cash in the bank's coffers, for them to use to get the country going again, except that the money just sits in their coffers not helping anyone except themselves. But QE affects many of us by reducing pension annuity rates thereby reducing our pensions - due to the values of long dated gilts going up as the Government buys them back and consequently the yields going down which then reduces annuity rates. But, I'm sure its more complicated than that.40


QE doesn't involve the printing of paper money, but the creation of digital money (read: 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', etc), which is then given to the banks and 'used' by the lovely banking people to 'buy' bonds, etc.

If you can imagine gaining full access to your bank account via your bank's system and simply typing £70,000,000 into it, you'll get the idea....
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Anthony Lovell
North Wales,
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icon09 Feb 2012 19:27
You've missed out the most important word, Temporary, it will all disappear again.
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nickwiz
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Thruxton (04-08)


icon09 Feb 2012 22:27
G-San:
the creation of digital money (read: 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', etc),


Ok so if thats the case that must make the deficit we're being bashed over the head with the same. ie 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', :tongueout::lol:
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

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icon09 Feb 2012 23:05
G:

QE doesn't involve the printing of paper money, but the creation of digital money (read: 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', etc), which is then given to the banks and 'used' by the lovely banking people to 'buy' bonds, etc.

If you can imagine gaining full access to your bank account via your bank's system and simply typing £70,000,000 into it, you'll get the idea....

Source: http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboar...

Might as well be Monopoly money when governments and banks start playing around with it.:thumbdown:
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Who The F
I 8 smartarses,
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icon09 Feb 2012 23:08
Obee - show me the money honey :kiss:
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
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icon09 Feb 2012 23:09
Who the F:
Obee - show me the money honey :kiss:


Haven't got enough honey money.:cry:
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Who The F
I 8 smartarses,
United Kingdom

Premier Member
Posts: 17,661
Daytona T595


icon09 Feb 2012 23:11
Obee Wan:
Who the F:
Obee - show me the money honey :kiss:


Haven't got enough honey mummy:cry:


:sad::sad::sad:
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Baldbloke
Up there in Moray,
United Kingdom

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icon10 Feb 2012 09:03
Schnitzel von Rammstein:
A bit like Italy in the late 80's then. They were going to chop 3 000's of their currency. They started to call it the Lira pesante or heavy Lira...



It was why the Italian cops were more than happy in the 80s to take neighbouring countries currency for traffic fines:lol:

QE = devalutation as I see it, so not only are savings losing value as the rate of inflation is higher than the bank return, but the actual value of those savings is also being eroded every time they bang in more so called QE.

Possibly makes our dwindling exports more competitive
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Chris S
Effingham,
United Kingdom

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icon10 Feb 2012 09:22
It's no problem, so long as they take the same amount of money back out of the system later.

The chances of any politician deliberately restricting the money supply are pretty small though. :frown:

So yes, devaluation.

But, sometimes you need to do this to increase competitiveness during hard times. And this is exactly what joining the Euro stops you doing.

Hence the uncompetitive Eurozone countries are now completely stuffed (I heard a report from Greece suggesting 'Austerity' would last 19 years :speechless:)
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Anthony Lovell
North Wales,
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icon10 Feb 2012 10:04
Except that it will be the bank of england that remove the extra the politicos will have little say
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Obee Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom

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icon10 Feb 2012 10:15
Chris:

I heard a report from Greece suggesting 'Austerity' would last 19 years )

Source: http://www.triumphtorque.com/messageboar...

That's because they been having a party on everyone else for the last 25 years and royally taking the piss.:frown:
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ST
Surrey Heath,
United Kingdom

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icon10 Feb 2012 10:16
Digital money 30
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A Bastard
Droitwich,
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icon10 Feb 2012 10:19
Cheques have been "analogue" money for decades, centuries even, so no great shakes there. :thumbdown:
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ST
Surrey Heath,
United Kingdom

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icon10 Feb 2012 10:21
NSS 03

Digital in what sense different to 'electronic' then ?
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nickwiz
-,
United Kingdom

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Thruxton (04-08)


icon10 Feb 2012 11:25
Baldbloke:


Possibly makes our dwindling exports more competitive



Which is what I said :tongueout:
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Chris S
Effingham,
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icon10 Feb 2012 11:26
According to the BBC, exports reached a record high in December :thumbup:
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G-San
Blurredhorizonville,
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icon10 Feb 2012 13:20
nickwiz:
G-San:
the creation of digital money (read: 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', etc),


Ok so if thats the case that must make the deficit we're being bashed over the head with the same. ie 'pretend', 'make believe', 'non existent', :tongueout::lol:


Nail. Head. Bang on, Nickwiz.

Since 1971, when what became known as the Nixon Shock ended the direct convertibility of the United States dollar to gold, all major currencies have been fiat currencies, including the dollar, pound and the euro.

Because they are not backed by a physical commodity (i.e. gold), fiat currencies have no intrinsic value other than that conferred upon them by the issuer. Fiat currencies are just pieces of paper that we are told are 'worth' a dollar or a pound or a euro. (As someone mentioned, 'Monopoly money. Or think in terms of the 'money' issued by Zynga so you can 'buy' things in their crappy little Facebook games.)

The money scam rabbit hole goes much deeper than that, but I'm going to stop there as I need to do some work to 'make' more of this non-existent, theoretical force, these digits created on computer screens, so I can 'pay' my bills.

If I don't I may be charged.... interest!

But that's another story....
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nickwiz
-,
United Kingdom

Posts: 9,191
Thruxton (04-08)


icon10 Feb 2012 14:17
I knew it :thumbup::lol:
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